Darkfall might as well pack up and go home.. It's over for Darkfall.. It's been over for a long time.. but this just really brings it home..
They missed the boat BIG TIME..
i don't normally respond to trolls but this is sheer stupidity...
DF have released 5 videos of actual in-game footage of their game as well as hundred of screenshots and dozens of pretty detailed developer journals. it's clear to any objective observer that DF are not far from release.
MO have released a single 'teaser' cinematic, which is obviously pre-rendered and not an "in-game" video. MO have no screenshots, and virtually no info on gameplay. MO have guessed at a release of summer 2009, ie: a release at least 1.5 years away.
lepidus: That's why they call it editorial. If he writes an article saying the sky is in fact lime green and makes a halfway readable case, all the power to him.
It's plain as day to see that these guys (whoever they are) really don't care about this project because what they're doing by not releasing any real info (if they could) is just doing way more harm than good but they keep doing it like it's nothing...
Just ask yourself this.. If you were building a game and had lots of great stuff to show , would you show it? or would you just sit on it letting everyone put you down? You would show it like anyone else would..
DF have released 5 videos of actual in-game footage
Only two of them are longer than like 30 seconds and one of those longer ones shows no gameplay at all.. they look like nothing more than early Alpha demo's. They've shown maybe 10% of what they claim they have.
They have never even shown a simple character creation video. I mean c'mon.
MO have released a single 'teaser' cinematic, which is obviously pre-rendered and not an "in-game" video.
It is in-game footage. It's not a cinematic. They used all the in-game art and the Unreal 3 Engine in that video..
Do you know what normal mapping is? It makes a 4,000 poly model look like a 30 million poly model without adding anymore polys. Unreal 3 Engine can render that quality in real game time easy using normal mapping and advanced shaders. This isn't 1999 game development anymore.
MO have released a single 'teaser' cinematic, which is obviously pre-rendered and not an "in-game" video.
Ouch, yes, it is not in-game by any means, but just because your used to the 2001 graphics from Darkfall, doesn't mean all games have to look like that, since MO uses the Unreal engine, most likely 3 (wouldn't make any sense otherwise), there are games that look much better then that already in-game in that engine.
Edit: lol i didn't see the post above mine, good show.
Well, at least Darkfall is getting publicity here. I remember when the first journals came out and I couldn't get a single person to post on the forums about it :D
Yami187: That came without warning Didn't relise dense was that bad lol. Just was using as my own opinion didn't mean to hurt any ones feelings, so sorry. >.>
Kinda surprised me too. O.o I launched the warning shot across the bow while, simultaneously apparently, someone shot a torpedo at the ship and sunk your account. :P
Either way, MorkdaOrc, you're right: Discussion, even arguing, is good publicity. It keeps things in front of people and gives them lots to think about as they ponder how to rip the opposite opinion a new one. :D
"If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met." 09/28/07
That should answer all you newcomers' questions about where Darkfall stands. Now let's hear from Teedle and the other "believers" who say beta is already occurring, then I'll refer you to:
"a nearly complete prototype of a product (as software) <released in beta> <the beta version>"
A NEARLY complete prototype. As in, something that's ALMOST finished. So why does he say they will have a beta version, when he then says it's feature complete? Duh. It's not.
This game and the developers are all so far off from reality it's laughable. Every post they try and defend the game with just sinks them deeper and deeper. They are going to announce beta "very soon" which was half a year ago. When did very soon become half a year? I rest my case.
Arguing about the points above just show your complete lack of simple common sense. Begin.
chaosloc: Forsaken on the DF boards has this quoted:
"If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met." 09/28/07
That should answer all you newcomers' questions about where Darkfall stands. Now let's hear from Teedle and the other "believers" who say beta is already occurring, then I'll refer you to:
"a nearly complete prototype of a product (as software) <released in beta> <the beta version>"
A NEARLY complete prototype. As in, something that's ALMOST finished. So why does he say they will have a beta version, when he then says it's feature complete? Duh. It's not.
This game and the developers are all so far off from reality it's laughable. Every post they try and defend the game with just sinks them deeper and deeper. They are going to announce beta "very soon" which was half a year ago. When did very soon become half a year? I rest my case.
Arguing about the points above just show your complete lack of simple common sense. Begin.
Its interesting, yet retarded that you want to go on this discussion right after Tasos said they will >> NOT << Give out a date
And as you said, arguing against that is just lack of common sense, lets not argue or bring up something the developer did NOT <<<<< mention then shall we....
There really is one born every minute ;)
Basically all the nay-sayers points keep coming down to 2 points, the game doesnt exsist and the game has bad graphics. Not really much you can do about that until they play the game and this discussion is purely forgotten (and teedle and weezer stand at the unemployment line)
I do think its a shame we didnt get a real game update instead of some text written about why they dont give a release date or to explain his last post again, for the less than smart ones out here :/
I have to laugh at this thread. So many posts and people missed a significant BS paragraph from Tasos.
"Our tools allow us to test features locally, we can run servers on any operating system and we run multiple clients per machine to which anyone in the office can connect to, in order to assist with what's being tested. At the moment we're testing clans and conquest and we're continuing the terrain testing which has been a long process."
So Tasos made some HUGE claims in this journal.
1) The server client can run on any PC/OS.
2) The game has cutting edge AI.
If you cannot see through this BS I am sorry for you. These games server side take dedicated servers often custom tailored for the game with heavy modification on top of a specific pre-determined OS requirements. What Tasos says DF can do no mmo company has been able to do to date. Add to this that a generic server client can support 10K+ players at a time. What Tasos is describing is just not possible. Not for a true MMO.
Now think about the AI. In order to fully test the game, they would need to have thousands of bots running on the server side. As bots become more complicated (and to do what Tasos says they are doing would make them some of the most complicated ever developed) they take up increased CPU cycles.
The average gaming computer might be able to handle 16 of those bots with moderate lag. Now lets scale to say 5000 bots. That would take the computing power of an estimated 313 computers. Sorry, it goes from improbably to bloody impossible. Even if you remove video requirements (not needed) you are talking about something well beyond what people are doing in the AI industry. They would have universities and corporations banging down their door for the technology.
Now package this up in a small indi company and there can only be one logical conclusion. Tasos is lying. Would not be the first time. After all the game has been feature complete since summer of last year and according to Tasos was 100% ready for beta twice between july and sept 2007.
Tasos is like John Smedley 300 times over.
Darkfall = Bullshit
Warcry should seriously think about stopping all coverage of this crap until they actually get to a Beta.. It aint like anything that's said is worth reading anyway. Same old stuff over and over.
I have to laugh at this thread. So many posts and people missed a significant BS paragraph from Tasos.
"Our tools allow us to test features locally, we can run servers on any operating system and we run multiple clients per machine to which anyone in the office can connect to, in order to assist with what's being tested. At the moment we're testing clans and conquest and we're continuing the terrain testing which has been a long process."
So Tasos made some HUGE claims in this journal.
1) The server client can run on any PC/OS.
2) The game has cutting edge AI.
If you cannot see through this BS I am sorry for you. These games server side take dedicated servers often custom tailored for the game with heavy modification on top of a specific pre-determined OS requirements. What Tasos says DF can do no mmo company has been able to do to date. Add to this that a generic server client can support 10K+ players at a time. What Tasos is describing is just not possible. Not for a true MMO.
Now think about the AI. In order to fully test the game, they would need to have thousands of bots running on the server side. As bots become more complicated (and to do what Tasos says they are doing would make them some of the most complicated ever developed) they take up increased CPU cycles.
The average gaming computer might be able to handle 16 of those bots with moderate lag. Now lets scale to say 5000 bots. That would take the computing power of an estimated 313 computers. Sorry, it goes from improbably to bloody impossible. Even if you remove video requirements (not needed) you are talking about something well beyond what people are doing in the AI industry. They would have universities and corporations banging down their door for the technology.
Now package this up in a small indi company and there can only be one logical conclusion. Tasos is lying. Would not be the first time. After all the game has been feature complete since summer of last year and according to Tasos was 100% ready for beta twice between july and sept 2007.
Tasos is like John Smedley 300 times over.
Darkfall = Bullshit
Warcry should seriously think about stopping all coverage of this crap until they actually get to a Beta.. It aint like anything that's said is worth reading anyway. Same old stuff over and over.
Nice to see you brought up some valid points.
All i see is people that demand stuff of a company. Stuff they have no right of demanding.
All i see is people that demand stuff of a company. Stuff they have no right of demanding.
Aka spoiled brats.
Well, you can look at it one of two ways, from one regard, if you have a never-ending fountain spewing with features, that you bring up over and over, maybe a little bit of proof might mean something, on the other hand, yes, I guess we can take their word for it, kind of like politicians, we know how promises with no grounds end up then, eh?
Its interesting, yet retarded that you want to go on this discussion right after Tasos said they will >> NOT << Give out a date
And as you said, arguing against that is just lack of common sense, lets not argue or bring up something the developer did NOT <<<<< mention then shall we....
There really is one born every minute ;)
Basically all the nay-sayers points keep coming down to 2 points, the game doesnt exsist and the game has bad graphics. Not really much you can do about that until they play the game and this discussion is purely forgotten (and teedle and weezer stand at the unemployment line)
I do think its a shame we didnt get a real game update instead of some text written about why they dont give a release date or to explain his last post again, for the less than smart ones out here :/
Gief game, not pointless discussions
Do you understand English? Your "there is one born every minute comment" made me laugh pretty hard, seeing as you just explained yourself being born incapable of logical understanding.
I was merely commenting on the humor of how Tasos says the game is feature complete, and then saying they aren't ready for release, or even to give a beta date. Giving beta now is even funnier though, because apparently their testers can find more bugs than an open beta can - which I would bet my paycheck would never happen. Software has bugs. People find bugs in games that have been out for 5 years. It's just a fact of life.
If the game was so feature complete last year, why are we nearly halfway through 2008 and we still don't have anything really solid or factual to support that? 90% of the game's own community will agree that we still know basically nothing about the crafting system...yet the game is feature complete. So, I can grasp the concepts people state about them not having time or wanting to show a half ass looking video, but is it so hard to explain crafting in-depth? Why not provide information, rather than flap "feature complete" and "we are gods among men" developer journals out? I can flex my e-peen on the internet too, but these guys are constantly just dishing out information with no real substance. I could write a 20 chapter book about the greatest game in the world, but making and delivering it properly is a totally different story. Hopefully someone grasps that concept and starts realizing what I've been saying for the last year. Or you could just flame me when I've constantly made nothing but solid points about this game, therein making yourself look like a fanboy.
Nightfreak:
Basically all the nay-sayers points keep coming down to 2 points, the game doesnt exsist and the game has bad graphics. Not really much you can do about that until they play the game and this discussion is purely forgotten (and teedle and weezer stand at the unemployment line)
Neither of those 2 have ever been my points. I believe a partial game exists, which a small development team found themselves in over their heads, and instead of breaking bad news to the world, they've decided to continue the charade for years. I also believe these guys are still wanting to finish this product, but as I said they are in way over their heads. They have business deals to work out with prospective publishers and/or learn themselves how to publish the game and then make it successful - sure it will sell well on it's own even if it never shows up on a shelf, but to make back the investment we've been shown was dropped into it some time ago it will need mainstream attention. Any development team with no goals set, is a development team destined for failure. Think about anything you've ever done in life: if you don't set a goal, do you ever really accomplish much? The human becomes lazy unless they push themselves to goals, we've all been there with something in our lives. Not setting a deadline or goal here only shows the community these guys are amateurs. Bigger and better things have been accomplished by amateurs before sure, but I guarantee people like Google, and other hugely successful companies had some type of goal and/or timeline. Or you could pretend we are at Walgreen's and live in "Perfect". Whatever floats your boat and helps you sleep at night I guess.
All i see is people that demand stuff of a company. Stuff they have no right of demanding.
Aka spoiled brats.
Why don't we have a right to demand information? Some of us have poured years of interest and website hits into this game. We've also brought prospective customers to their business. The customer is always right. We are customers, whether we are paying yet or not.
Sure, some people can tone it down and not be so aggressive when requesting or demanding information, but some of us are frustrated at false promises and hope.
Its interesting, yet retarded that you want to go on this discussion right after Tasos said they will >> NOT << Give out a date
And as you said, arguing against that is just lack of common sense, lets not argue or bring up something the developer did NOT <<<<< mention then shall we....
There really is one born every minute ;)
Basically all the nay-sayers points keep coming down to 2 points, the game doesnt exsist and the game has bad graphics. Not really much you can do about that until they play the game and this discussion is purely forgotten (and teedle and weezer stand at the unemployment line)
I do think its a shame we didnt get a real game update instead of some text written about why they dont give a release date or to explain his last post again, for the less than smart ones out here :/
Gief game, not pointless discussions
Do you understand English? Your "there is one born every minute comment" made me laugh pretty hard, seeing as you just explained yourself being born incapable of logical understanding.
I was merely commenting on the humor of how Tasos says the game is feature complete, and then saying they aren't ready for release, or even to give a beta date. Giving beta now is even funnier though, because apparently their testers can find more bugs than an open beta can - which I would bet my paycheck would never happen. Software has bugs. People find bugs in games that have been out for 5 years. It's just a fact of life.
If the game was so feature complete last year, why are we nearly halfway through 2008 and we still don't have anything really solid or factual to support that? 90% of the game's own community will agree that we still know basically nothing about the crafting system...yet the game is feature complete. So, I can grasp the concepts people state about them not having time or wanting to show a half ass looking video, but is it so hard to explain crafting in-depth? Why not provide information, rather than flap "feature complete" and "we are gods among men" developer journals out? I can flex my e-peen on the internet too, but these guys are constantly just dishing out information with no real substance. I could write a 20 chapter book about the greatest game in the world, but making and delivering it properly is a totally different story. Hopefully someone grasps that concept and starts realizing what I've been saying for the last year. Or you could just flame me when I've constantly made nothing but solid points about this game, therein making yourself look like a fanboy.
Nightfreak:
Basically all the nay-sayers points keep coming down to 2 points, the game doesnt exsist and the game has bad graphics. Not really much you can do about that until they play the game and this discussion is purely forgotten (and teedle and weezer stand at the unemployment line)
Neither of those 2 have ever been my points. I believe a partial game exists, which a small development team found themselves in over their heads, and instead of breaking bad news to the world, they've decided to continue the charade for years. I also believe these guys are still wanting to finish this product, but as I said they are in way over their heads. They have business deals to work out with prospective publishers and/or learn themselves how to publish the game and then make it successful - sure it will sell well on it's own even if it never shows up on a shelf, but to make back the investment we've been shown was dropped into it some time ago it will need mainstream attention. Any development team with no goals set, is a development team destined for failure. Think about anything you've ever done in life: if you don't set a goal, do you ever really accomplish much? The human becomes lazy unless they push themselves to goals, we've all been there with something in our lives. Not setting a deadline or goal here only shows the community these guys are amateurs. Bigger and better things have been accomplished by amateurs before sure, but I guarantee people like Google, and other hugely successful companies had some type of goal and/or timeline. Or you could pretend we are at Walgreen's and live in "Perfect". Whatever floats your boat and helps you sleep at night I guess.
Brilliant! Just when i thought this couldnt get any dumber you start defending the fact that you are trying to stab at Tasos for saying its feature complete and it not being ready for release, thats awesome keep digging that hole!
But i'll clarify it for you, as i work in the software development to the story goes like this. You design something, You build something, You test something, You reflect on the test results, and then the circle repeats itself until the product is complete and to say "ready to publish". Soooooo hoping this is not to hard for you, A product can easily be feature complete, but not yet fully tested, and thus not ready to publish because bugs will have to removed
Ohh and Internal testing at the company which you seem to find so useless and dumb ,is to take out the majority of the flaws/bugs BEFORE, ill state this again... BEFORE, you go to a public beta (This is instead of posting a beta with a million bugs in it).
So yeh Im still waiting for your actual solid points you are making about that game, which i can not find. And i might be a fan of the Darkfall idea, but that does not mean i wont listen to REAL actual points instead of trying to bitch about DF's PR .
FYI read Gunthers post, he made the only solid points sofar
All i see is people that demand stuff of a company. Stuff they have no right of demanding.
Aka spoiled brats.
Why don't we have a right to demand information? Some of us have poured years of interest and website hits into this game. We've also brought prospective customers to their business. The customer is always right. We are customers, whether we are paying yet or not.
Sure, some people can tone it down and not be so aggressive when requesting or demanding information, but some of us are frustrated at false promises and hope.
Wrong some more. For you to be a customer, they would have to have a product. If you bought a product, you would have the right to complaints, questions and what not. If you had paid to view the website or otherwise make use of their services, you would have a right to complain and what not.
Now they do not owe, you , me , or anyone else anything.
Dev Journals are a free service for the fans. You can read it all you like but it doesnt give you any right to start throwing unsubstantiated claims to the developer
Well, what atziluth posted and timberwolve brought to us here is a VERY valid point. When I factor in that bit of knowledge, it does seem a bit disheartening.
NO, their dedicated servers would not be running on Mac/Linux/FreeBSD OR WINDOWS. But, then again they are not public servers, and ordering specific hardware/building proprietary software, months/years before release, would be a BAD idea, as it would be obsolete by the time the game goes under load at launch.
NO, their AI cannot be THAT complex, (unless of course they have dedicated AI combat servers that an npc's control AI switches to for combat, and has a dumber one for non-combat.) Then again, their AI doesn't sound all that complex, it's just more than the average player can handle, so most games don't force players to deal with it.
However, the final point about being feature complete, ya, that's BS. That means it's all programmed in, that DOESN'T mean it's tested or revised. So really, the words 'feature complete' mean NOTHING to the beta readiness.
teedle: but they didn't mind giving the platform for it now did they? ;)
That's why they call it editorial. If he writes an article saying the sky is in fact lime green and makes a halfway readable case, all the power to him.
I think that is a chicken sh*t excuse. Fan sites should stay neutral and by putting on the site, makes Warcry look extremely unprofessional. You guys are far from CNN...get real, what a joke. lol
P.S. And Teedle deserves to be band just as bad is yapsniper...spamming the same posts over 5 game sites.
Brilliant! Just when i thought this couldnt get any dumber you start defending the fact that you are trying to stab at Tasos for saying its feature complete and it not being ready for release, thats awesome keep digging that hole!
But i'll clarify it for you, as i work in the software development to the story goes like this. You design something, You build something, You test something, You reflect on the test results, and then the circle repeats itself until the product is complete and to say "ready to publish". Soooooo hoping this is not to hard for you, A product can easily be feature complete, but not yet fully tested, and thus not ready to publish because bugs will have to removed
Ohh and Internal testing at the company which you seem to find so useless and dumb ,is to take out the majority of the flaws/bugs BEFORE, ill state this again... BEFORE, you go to a public beta (This is instead of posting a beta with a million bugs in it).
So yeh Im still waiting for your actual solid points you are making about that game, which i can not find. And i might be a fan of the Darkfall idea, but that does not mean i wont listen to REAL actual points instead of trying to bitch about DF's PR .
FYI read Gunthers post, he made the only solid points sofar
I am taking a stab at Tasos, cause all he does is flex his e-peen but never delivers on his word. Maybe I'm the asshole here, but am I truly the only idiot out here seeing such?
He said himself, in his own words (very bluntly) that they were narrowing in on a beta date to provide to the community "very soon" in 2007. Where is that? So let me guess, they didn't break their word cause he said "narrowing" in right?
And a customer is someone who pays for goods, so you got me there. We are the community though, and like I've said, we will be paying for a service (well, probably not if ya know what I mean).
Lastly, please learn some grammar if you're going to try and insult someone's intelligence. Thanks.
teedle: but they didn't mind giving the platform for it now did they? ;)
That's why they call it editorial. If he writes an article saying the sky is in fact lime green and makes a halfway readable case, all the power to him.
I think that is a chicken sh*t excuse. Fan sites should stay neutral and by putting on the site, makes Warcry look extremely unprofessional. You guys are far from CNN...get real, what a joke. lol
P.S. And Teedle deserves to be band just as bad is yapsniper...spamming the same posts over 5 game sites.
I agree with Jaggid, why ban Jamisniper and not Teedle? Teedle is obviously a troll when he posts the same bitching about the game everywhere (even on other forums and here its including private messages and then doesnt go into discussion about his so called points? And yet you choose to ban an overexcited fan because he comes off a little headstrong in his posts every now and then?
I am taking a stab at Tasos, cause all he does is flex his e-peen but never delivers on his word. Maybe I'm the asshole here, but am I truly the only idiot out here seeing such?
He said himself, in his own words (very bluntly) that they were narrowing in on a beta date to provide to the community "very soon" in 2007. Where is that? So let me guess, they didn't break their word cause he said "narrowing" in right?
And a customer is someone who pays for goods, so you got me there. We are the community though, and like I've said, we will be paying for a service (well, probably not if ya know what I mean).
Lastly, please learn some grammar if you're going to try and insult someone's intelligence. Thanks.
Ohh yeh the good old: when i've run out of arguments i'm going to whine about spelling/grammar mistakes to save face.
The fact that there we're claims made by the developers and then missed is correct, however to go start whining about that when he explicitly mentions he is not going to post any date at all is just stupid trolling imo. If he would have said Beta starts today and then doesnt deliver again, by all means go on your flame tour, but this just falls in the teedle category.
Darkfall is pipedream. It's nothing more than a hobby project. It's so ridiculously obvious at this point that they don't know what they are doing... or they just lie through their teeth half the time to stave off having to actually release anything...
Remember.. one of the dev journals clearly said , Beta and release this year.. Of course it also conveniently said that was their "target" which of course will never happen.. and when it doesn't happen I fully expect people like NightFreak to use it as a lame excuse..
Wow and i thought you were someone that actually wanted to discuss real points timberwolve, but i guess i was wrong.
I have never defended the missing of a claimed date for whatever. And i agree entirely by people that say by what Darkfall has shown the game wont be out soon. I however do not discard the possibillity that Darkfall has shown us very little of what they have at this moment, something the rest of you seems hellbend on doing, because what you cant see doesnt exsist right?
Shame you have to resort to trolling instead of discussing; the teedle is strong in that one!
IMO banning Yamisniper was a dead wrong abuse of admin powers.
And yes, I say this knowing full well it will likely get ME banned.
But I feel it must be said. You want to ban somebody, look at all of teedle's posts. They are full of insults, and devoid of discussion points relevant to the topic. Also, yes, he DOES PM people to rant more, he did it to me too.
Oh god, Oh noes, this wasn't in regards to the topic, and I blatantly question the abuse of power by an admin, so I guess Ill see you in IRC guys.
I have to compare this whole thing to something outside the world of game development. Simply to say it is good advice. "Do not insult someones God." Take this as anology only and not a religous debate.
Darkfall = God, as to say to those who believe in Darkfall and all it's promises and potential despite the actual evidence or lack thereof. Those who follow Darkfall religously have faith, (unshakeable faith) in the project and will listen tirelessly any tiny tidbits tossed out by the priests of their god (Tasos). So it is completely pointless to attempt to desuade the faith they have in their god. Poking fun of or claiming it does not exist only fuels the fires of their faith and makes them stronger paladins on the crusade to defend their god.
i don't normally respond to trolls but this is sheer stupidity...
DF have released 5 videos of actual in-game footage of their game as well as hundred of screenshots and dozens of pretty detailed developer journals. it's clear to any objective observer that DF are not far from release.
MO have released a single 'teaser' cinematic, which is obviously pre-rendered and not an "in-game" video. MO have no screenshots, and virtually no info on gameplay. MO have guessed at a release of summer 2009, ie: a release at least 1.5 years away.