WoW vs. LOTRO and the Future of MMOs

After a hiatus for PAX, Jonathan Steinhauer's column returns with a new series on the Elements of the Game. First, though, is an in depth comparison of WoW and LOTRO and what it means for the Future of MMOs.

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What was that website that kept track of mmo player numbers?
I was wondering how lotro is doing these days

This?

cheers instrumental man!

altough i suppose these figures are rather outdated

Nightfreak:
cheers instrumental man!

altough i suppose these figures are rather outdated

and 90% guesswork.

I agree with one point of the article - I doubt very much if we'll ever see another innovative MMO every again. They've stuck with a formula that seems to work, and the industry doesn't want to dump money down a 'long shot'.

On the one hand, Roberto, I agree - that is, if we're going to see an innovative MMO it won't be a blockbuster title from one of the major studios. To a point, that makes sense - why spend millions of dollars in development for an absolute gamble?

That doesn't mean that we won't be seeing some innovation from smaller, boutique games - case in point, Twin Skies.

Although well written, the article is one of the most WoW-biased comparisons I've ever read. Of course the two games are similar: virtually all fantasy MMORPGs are, and WoW resembles many of the MMORPG's that came before it. Also, the author failed to point two of the main, significant differences between the two games: the lore/story driven content and the VASTLY different PvP systems. Then there are the countless minor differences(LOTRO's player housing, group combos, outfit and music systems etc). The author mentions none of these and simply implies that LOTRO is a well-done WoW clone, which is just not the case.

To bring another point is that one has to remember that WoW was a clone of many of the games currently out at the time including Everquest, Asheron's Call, and I believe Dark Age of Camelot. While WoW took advantage of the best eliminates of each game and in most cases improved on it, it is difficult to say that LoTRO is a WoW clone because of this fact.

WoW is a great game and has many great features, however so does LoTRO and some of the things we are hearing about from Moria, along with the features Jess216 points out pushes LoTRO ahead in the Clone War.

Very good points from Jess216 and Delmar. There certainly are differences between WoW and LOTRO, but they are in the details. When you look at the fundamental structure of both the similarities are staggering. Quests, character class types, character progression and skills, guilds, the market, and so on are strikingly similar. I didn't address PvP, which is probably one of the biggest differences, because I don't do it much and hardly feel qualified to address it in great detail. I don't entirely agree regarding storyline, but will delay comment because the future of story is the topic of my next article.

As I mentioned in the article, LOTRO is a fun game to play. I've got a L50 guardian and several other characters into their 40s. But if LOTRO is pushing the envelope on game design, it is only doing so in little ways. Moria is definitely a bigger step forward than the initial release of LOTRO. I'm excited about the new character types and hope they will disrupt the now-classic roles.

It is true that games naturally build off those that come before and WoW did the same. But in the here and now, WoW is the foundation that other games are building from. The article was probably largely inspired by my disappointing experience with Warhammer at PAX, but since it is only just now being released, it doesn't provide a good study. The bottom line is that designers are only taking baby steps because they are afraid of being too different from WoW, but until they dare to make bigger changes, it is unlikely anyone will topple the giant.

I disagree that the Skill Tree in WoW is better than the Trait/deed system in LOTRO. With WoW you earn skill points every level, after level 10, to pour into the tree as you see fit. Your character instantly benefits from these points, and with a point system you will have numerous clones of characters running around.

In LOTRO, you have to unlock the traits by your deeds/actions etc, you don't simply get points to buy them at level up, you can earn them without even getting to the next level. Also you don't instantly benefit from them you have to go and see a bard to equip them, and you can only have so many that you can equip at any given time. And you actually have to WORK for them, some call it grind but ultimately EVERYTHING in an MMO is Grind whether you intend to grind or not. (IE: working on quests, you kill mobs as you work, you are grinding levels, gathering materials for crafting, and actually crafting, you are grinding levels) Anyhow, you can have clones of characters running around in LOTRO but only if you've chosen to work on getting every trait and then equipping the same traits as other players.

I play both WoW and LOTRO, and I actually enjoy the trait/deed system in LOTRO better than WoW's easy point buy at level up system.

I think half that article was just dribble with too many adjectives, the other half had some decent points which i agreed with on the mostpart but it was far from comprehensive - only looking at gameplay mechanics and the community as reasons to stay with WoW. It goes deeper.

Sure the community is big, but its largely teens/pre-teens and in my 25+ yrs of gaming is easily the worst bunch of people you would ever have to deal with (generalisation, but true). So for me, I didnt play WoW for 3 yrs for the community I can assure you.

The other angle not covered by the article is the genre - aren't we all sick of orcs and elves yet? I mean every highly rated (and over-rated) MMO is hack and slash orcs and elves, don't they have any originality? See AoC, LOTRO, WoW, D&D online, Guild Wars, Fury, Warhammer etc etc - I mean seriously, can we get over it soon. How about an MMO that is of a different genre already?

OK tried and failed, Matrix online, PoTBS, Tabula Rasa, SWG, WWIIO were my personal experience. Great games in concept, but poor delivery in the end.

Off the top of my head - Games of different genre coming up: Huxley and The Agency will dare to be different if they get off the ground but I doubt they will be serious contenders to WoW. Nevertheless, my point is that they are on the right track - for a game to challenge the supremecy of WoW or LOTRO they need not have different gameplay mechanics, they need to be of a different genre. In fact, it would be silly to make a game so different to how WoW plays because I for one dont particulary want a learning curve, I just want some variety and hack and slash orcs and elves is old.

If blizzard made another MMO, whether it be a sci fi, or a different genre I have no doubt people would flock to it because they deliver quality products in comparison to everyone else (and no i am not a fanbois). But why should they? They have 8 million subscribers on board their cash cow that no doubt requires huge technical and human resource to keep running. Its a shame really, because I think we could all do with some variety and unfortunately it will be the independant/small time developers that will come up with the original IP to dare to be different, but will fail in the delivery and post release support departments like they all are doing time and time again.

Speaking of quality products: there is too much pressure to release unfinished games which = doom no matter how good the concept was. People leaving WoW to try out a new game have high standards to appease, a half finished, half arsed, bug filled game won't be successful. Just look at every MMO attempt thats gone to the crapper recently. People are people, and will do a direct comparison between the 2 games without taking into account the different levels of maturity. They want polish on release, not a continuous improvement roadmap that stretches into months. And this is why WoW will not be challenged by anything more than LOTRO in the foreseeable future.

You've put into print what I've been complaining about for quite awhile now. Almost all the MMOs I'd consider worthwhile have still been EQ clones, but they've each added improvements and tried one or two innovations (SWG's crafting system, for example). Eve stands out as the exception, but it's too hard-core for most people, so remains a niche game.

But obviously you haven't played AoC if you think the only real difference is the PvP side. The combat system is quite different from other MMOs in that there is no "auto-attack", and special attacks (combos) take more than a single key press. You actually have to pay attention to the battle, time your attacks and key presses, and worry about your position as well as those of your team-mates.

Of course there are plenty of flaws like every other MMO suffers in the first six months and for the same reason: premature release.

At least AoC tried to make a fundamental mechanic different, unlike most other MMOs that simply try to make crafting more fun, or tweak the PvP formula a bit.

I'm still playing AoC, and as a primary soloer, I find it more interesting than WoW. But then, I did play WoW for more than a year, so it's not like I got bored right away.

Good lord you people are zombies. Have we gone so far in the deep end of this level treadmill server zoning zombified system that we think games like WoW and AOC are the status quo of "fun"?

Does nobody here remember Ultima Online before it was corrupted by trammel back in 1999? Apparently not because anyone who thinks that WoW is "fun" has never played UO pre-trammel. I guess the only people who still remember this is the developers at Aventurine. Darkfall is the only hope that I have for this industry. While I don't agree with 100% of the features/envionrment of Darkfall, it is the best thing we got coming which is a SKILL BASED system in a seamless world.

Have to agree with oddbod about the AoC combat. It is very good and a huge improvement over WoW and LoTRO. Still have my LoTRo registration, but I can't quest because the combat is so mind numbingly boring after AoC - same deal with WoW - left that for LoTRO. So AoC did make a significant improvement, it just got it wrong in most other places.

Perhaps the thing that AoC lacked the most was community, and it is why I still have my LoTRo account - the community is very very good in LoTRO. It might be much smaller than WoW, but it is so mature and there is plently on the fly roleplay. Mix in with that the best lore there is and its still fun - at least from the social side.

But the game that is going to be very different to everything is Darkfall. It breaks out of the mold. No levels, no classes and skill based. I noticed that there are some European gaming sites going up seeking preorders, so its not far off. The gameplay looks to be superb. We'll see what the community is like. But certainly Jonathon got it wrong when he suggested that there was nothing coming that ventured beyond WoW and LoTRO.

angelic7:
While I don't agree with 100% of the features/envionrment of Darkfall, it is the best thing we got coming which is a SKILL BASED system in a seamless world.

You should check out Asheron's Call, then. A skill based system in a seamless world. One of the first, and over 100 content updates since release.

Rhun:
Have to agree with oddbod about the AoC combat. It is very good and a huge improvement over WoW and LoTRO. Still have my LoTRo registration, but I can't quest because the combat is so mind numbingly boring after AoC - same deal with WoW - left that for LoTRO. So AoC did make a significant improvement, it just got it wrong in most other places.

Perhaps the thing that AoC lacked the most was community, and it is why I still have my LoTRo account - the community is very very good in LoTRO. It might be much smaller than WoW, but it is so mature and there is plently on the fly roleplay. Mix in with that the best lore there is and its still fun - at least from the social side.

But the game that is going to be very different to everything is Darkfall. It breaks out of the mold. No levels, no classes and skill based. I noticed that there are some European gaming sites going up seeking preorders, so its not far off. The gameplay looks to be superb. We'll see what the community is like. But certainly Jonathon got it wrong when he suggested that there was nothing coming that ventured beyond WoW and LoTRO.

If darkfall ever becomes more then vaporware and actually comes out, I would certainly be excited to give it a try as they have some cool sandbox type ideas.

smut:
If darkfall ever becomes more then vaporware and actually comes out, I would certainly be excited to give it a try as they have some cool sandbox type ideas.

That is a mighty big "IF" you have there. And I have to agree with Roberto, Asheron's Call was the 1st with a skill based system in a seamless world (For those keeping track, UO was not seamless) and to this day is still the best.

AoC combat system was fun and the cut scenes for quests are a nice touch, but I have to say that by level 40 it is mindless fighting and by level 50 (really level 45) it starts to take on Lineage 2 properties of all you can do is grind kills. No quests or they are few and far between.

If I want mindless, I just go back to WoW (which I still play). Oh and just for the record LoTR, the books is where dwarves, elves, and orcs all started. So while LoTRO may not be unique in the classes and races they are from the source that started it all.

I was replying to the person quoted in my post who claimed Darkfall was going to change everything.

I don't agree that graphics are just "candy"--if so, we would all still be playing Wizardry, Zork, etc. It isn't just the story or the "candy." It can be either, or both.

Like the iPhone, the "perception" is important. Not contact send, no cut and past, etc. and it is still "perceived" as the "it" phone. WoW is perceived as well, but it is perception that sells--and sells well (I won't even get into politics, national or international...).

What keeps me playing is ... fun. Company is nice, but there is always a pug. You moan that it isn't doable? Give me a break--maybe YOU can't. I have done almost all in GW, WoW, and LoTRo with a pug. Perception...

Like what you want. Have an opinion. However, you might try to realize that what is "right" for you may be "wrong" for others.

Do you think Hitler thought, "I'm going to do the wrong thing..."? Just a thought.

Try saying, "I think" or "I like" rather than "this is better than that." Remember, we are all entitled to an opinion, and that opinion is "right" for us. While you are writing about "your" opinion, your statements about "is still the best" or "it is better than" is a factual statement that can not be made since it all depends on "perception" and "opinion"-both too subjective... I should not have to add the (for me) that should follow those statements. I'd simply ask that you, as a writer, clarify "your" opinion rather than make it look like you can make that decision for everyone else.

Everyone else is, of course, entitled to think differently...

I believe in the future MMO's will all try to copy WOW.

Do we really have to go to the future.