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WarCry Choice  Posts: 1986 Joined: 29 Jan 2004 | Dana "Lepidus" Massey |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 4 Aug 2007 | Great article, and nice to finally see SOE admit to some of the poor decisions they've made in the past. SOE, I think, gets a bad reputation that is only partly deserved. They've made as many good choices and decisions as bad ones, only their bad ones are REALLY bad and higher-profile than the good. Again, great article - but in some serious need of proofreading. If you need help, drop me a line! :-) |
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Posts: 11 Joined: 27 Jun 2007 | Revisionist, self-serving B.S. from Smedley, shame on WarCry for publishing it. "[The mistake was] to not just think we know the right direction without bringing the fans into the mix," he explained. "We made the cardinal sin of not listening, but assuming and we were wrong." You could believe that ... if you weren't there. The SWG team had put up In Concept and In Development boards on their forums SPECIFICALLY because of communication failures that led to customer outcry following the 'Combat Upgrade'. SOE deliberately bypassed the process they had already promised to follow for major game changes for one simple reason: they knew that slashing costs and designing the game for a completely different audience would be MASSIVELY unpopular with their existing customers. Deliberately not asking somebody what they'll think about something you know they'll hate is NOT the same as "not listening", and Smedley knows it. So should WarCry ... shame on you for publishing marketing fluff. The article was one step above a pop-up ad ... maybe. |
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WarCry Choice Posts: 1986 Joined: 29 Jan 2004 | I think that's why we call it an interview. It's Smed's chance to talk and that's what he said. They didn't listen to their fans, that's the reason he gave in his apology. To suggest that it was intentional sabotage is absurd. Like or dislike SOE and Smed, but they didn't sabotage a game that likely brought in $5-million a month in subscriptions before the move. There are cheaper ways to "cut costs" than, you know, rebuilding the entire game. Dana "Lepidus" Massey |
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Posts: 11 Joined: 27 Jun 2007 | No, that's not what I said, please don't obfuscate. I didn't say he deliberately sabotaged, I said they deliberately chose to NOT solicit customer input, despite loudly promising to do so because of previous design changes that provoked customer backlash, because they KNEW what the response would be. They decided to chance that backlash from existing customers in pursuit of a new audience the NGE was meant to deliver -- an audience that never came. "Not listening" was not an accident, as Smedley suggests, but a deliberate choice based on cold calculation of customer reaction, NOT ignorance of what it might be. To not challenge Smedley on his quite deliberate (and consistent with past practices) revisionism means it's not an interview, it's an advertisement. You're just giving him a platform to re-write history and not challenging him on it. That's the difference between journalism and marketing. I have no objection to you printing advertisements, but don't try to characterize them as journalism.
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Posts: 1 Joined: 2 Oct 2007 | This is in regards to the mention of the console based game EQOA and lack of expansion in 3+yrs. The emails submitted to Mr. Smedley seems to have fallen on deaf ears, since most have not received and reply back. Alot of the people that check the forums have sent him an email asking about the future of the game, since there seems to be none. Guild mailings were sent out to those that don't have computer access to inform them of the situation. Below is my email sent to him. Mr. Smedley, |
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WarCry Choice Posts: 1986 Joined: 29 Jan 2004 |
He said in the interview that they assumed they were right and didn't consider player feedback. I don't see how that's much different than what you're upset about. He admitted it and apologized. Dana "Lepidus" Massey |
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Posts: 2 Joined: 2 Oct 2007 | Greetings, I wanted to post a reply in response to the article. To start, it is nice to see that they are positively moving in the right direction as a company, and continuing to offer a diverse plethora of games to their customers. While the immense shadow that is Blizzard looms over all these corporations, SOE continues going strong without showing any signs of being daunted. That is something to commend. Not only are they building new titles, they are expanding their current titles, and adding more and more content to each, focussing on what that particular breed of game has to offer, instead of making something it's not. EverQUest will always be EverQuest, as will SWG always be SWG. But that is WHY they offer that amount of diversity. As a comment, one phrase really stood out in your article. Quoting the text, you called out both Vanguard, Saga of Heroes, and Matrix Online as being "Critical Failures". The question that pops into my head, as well as a lot of other readers whom have discussed this with me, is just what makes these games "Critical Failures". An overshot estimation in player base isn't a critical failure. As a matter of fact, he said it himself. They sold over 200,000 copies of the game (Vanguard). This is hardly a failure. People realized the hard way that the system specs were a bit ahead of its time, however, I still play it to this day, despite some of the bugs. Both games, Matrix Online, and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes might not live up to monstrousities (which shall remain nameless in this segment of my reply) that dominate the market, however, they keep a very dedicated, and happy playerbase which log in, enjoy the content, and truck on. And in that, these games are not failures. Thank you for the insight to SOE's CEO. The man shows himself as being not just the president of a diverse company, but a gamer as well. |
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Posts: 9 Joined: 13 Jun 2007 | As one of the most vocal members of the jilted SWG vets, I am quite willing to accept Smed's apology... IF he puts action behind it. Open up classic servers with the Pre-NGE game on them. Other MMOs have done this sucessfully, including even EQ (the "progression servers"). This can be done at little cost and will do far more to heal both the wounds, SOE's reputation, and will actually make them some money considering all they need is the hardware (most SWG servers are very underutilized) and a backup tape. That is the follow up question I wish the interviewer would have had the guts to fire back at Smed... True, it would be unfair to yank away the current game from the (tiny fraction of the pre NGE player base) that still plays it. But you can be fair to both them and those he wronged by doing classic servers. And I refuse to buy the excuse that they'd have to have LEC approval. All it takes is going to LEC, saying they want to do this, they think they will get X number of returning subs, that will make Y amount of money, and oh, by the way, this will do more to heal our reputation than ANY amount of money spent on PR... Fact of the matter is actions speak louder than words. It's true that the current Dev team (with their now only semi-annual publish schedule) is more responsive than in the past. The problem is that players STILL are being forced to accept the premise that the NGE is the system to go with, when even now Smed admits it was a mistake. Everything needs to be on the table if he really means it. Besides, the window of opportunity for SOE to both make money, AND heal their reputation (and cease having the NGE thrown in their face every time Platform Publishing adds a new title) by offering classic is ticking away as we speak. Sometime in the next year we will get the old game back via the emulator and community run servers whether SOE does it or not. Once that time is reached, any SOE/LEC action involving introducing classic servers will be moot. I believe that the chance to save SWG1 and grow it past what it once had is past. What is at stake now is saving the IP as a viable franchise for a MMO period. The sequel, even if introduced without SOE involvement is doomed before it even releases thanks to the NGE. SOE is doomed because of the NGE. They are viewed as untrustworthy, unstable, and uncaring. Open up classic servers, Smed, if you want to prove this perception wrong, and if you TRULY want to do something to right the wrong. If you had done right, you would never have needed to apologize. You gambled your whole player base against the notion that you'd get far more by getting rid of "Uncle Owen" in favor of more casual players. You lost this gamble. Time to make good on your now admitted mistake and undo it. Give us our game back. That is all we have ever wanted. You will never get your good name back until you do. If you truly mean what you have said, you will do this. |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 3 Oct 2007 | It is nice to see that Mr. Smedley has an ida that Everquest Online Adventures exists. My Family and I have been playing EQOA since the beginning. I started with beta 3. We play almost everyday. Sometimes fr an hour or two, sometimes even more. We enjoy the adventures and exploration that we are able to participate in. Though I have no problem playing a game on a computer or console, this is the only console game my Wife will play for an extended period. It has been around three years since she played another console game. She would never touch a computer game. My Son is not allowed to be on a computer without supervision. So, we all play EQOA. Its simple game mechanics may turn away a few people, but the world in which our adventures takes place is a vast one. There are many dedicated players of Everquest Online Adventures. I am sure their passion for this game can equal the passion of players of Everquest and EverquestII. So, whAt is the point of this reply? I am hoping that Mr. Smedley will have the opportunity and time to read the replies to this article. I am hoping that he will see that EQOA is not a forgotten game and that there are many dedicated players of SOEs MMORPG console game. I am hoping that with the PS3 now available, that it would make sense to bring the EQOA to the new system. Either as an expansion or a full blown sequel. I feel that such a game, let's call it EQOA2 for the PS3, would attract new players and old ones alike. With the technology of blue-ray and the PS3, the EQOA as we know it will be given the opportunity to grow up and expand. To become even bigger and better than any other game on the PS3. Mr. Smedley. Please talk to your developers and players of EQOA. Let us share our passion with you. Thank you. |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 3 Oct 2007 |
Sure the mistakes were not listening to the current player base and assuming the changes were the right ones to make but what that glosses over is that they didn't listen to the then current players because they knew from the start that they wouldn't like the changes and they assumed more new players would join then would quit. Not quiet the same picture that Smedley tried to paint off what went wrong and not what he apologized for. |
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WarCry Choice Posts: 1986 Joined: 29 Jan 2004 |
We spoke a bit further about EQOA, but I left some of that out of the article. To add, basically, updates are very hard because client changes have to fit on a memory stick. Thus, the company is dedicated to continued server changes (quests and such), but has its hands tied in terms of client changes. They will not be doing another retail disc because there simply are not enough players to justify it.
I didn't go into this because we'd been over it a number of times in the past. Back in my MMORPG.com days, after the NGE, I asked exactly that question. They made it clear it cannot happen, as they cannot run and develop two divergent copies of the game. It isn't like DAoC Classic servers, that's simply the absence of content. This is for all intents and purposes, a whole other game. Anyway, that's the reason I got last time that issue was brought up and why I didn't bring it up again. Dana "Lepidus" Massey |
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Posts: 2 Joined: 3 Oct 2007 | Apologies only mean something if there are actions taken to correct the harm done. We learn this as kids and our legal system is built on that premise. So, Smed apologizes, but it means nothing. It has neither weight nor bearing since he takes no action to correct his "mistake". Therefore, the failure of the NGE will haunt him at every turn and reduce his subscribers until he makes right by his apology. Two specific cases: 1) Vanguard, admittedly a sinking ship, spawned a storm of protests when they announced that SOE was publisher. Expect this to continue with any new games that SOE publishes. Smed needs to understand that this bad word-of-mouth publicity will not stop until there are Pre-CU servers and/or he is no longer with SOE. |
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Posts: 2 Joined: 3 Oct 2007 | GatheredMyst, How long have you worked for Sony? Just curious. |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 3 Oct 2007 | Another copout, way to go Smedster. Let me make it simple for you, like you were a small, deceitful child: By the way, congratulations on destroying SWG, MxO and Vanguard. Isn't it funny how it's always somebody elses fault, there Shmed? "Well, yes, uh, errrrrr.....Sigil did such and such bad!" "The players, errrm, we didn't communicate with them effectively and they gave us a bad name! Anyway, the population was in heavy decline we had to do something!" Never mind the population was leaving because you took 90% of the developers off of SWG in the last beta (with *all* the beta testers saying "don't release yet, it's not ready!") and moved them all to EQ2 and ceased to improve the game. Never mind your "customer service" told people to go screw themselves when they had issues (thousands upon thousands of times!), instead of trying to help. If I did my job even half as wonderful as you do yours, I'd be fired the next day. The blacklist remains for $OE. At this point you'd have to turn out a game with the freedom of SWG Pre-CU, the polish of WoW and the content of...well, you'd have to be the first to produce some freaking amazing content, for me to even consider looking at something under the $OE banner. |
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Posts: 9 Joined: 13 Jun 2007 |
Look, we all know why Smed issued this meaningless and empty apology, empty because he doesn't plan to do a DARN thing to make right the mistake he is now admitting to, two years too late. He's making it because the NGE is dogging EVERYTHING SOE touches. Every company that partners with them undergoes a FIRESTORM of criticism for it. Every company that partners with them has to RUSH to reassure their prospective customers that SOE will have NOTHING to do with game development. When you are a MMO game developer, one that plans to release new games in the next year, this is a HUGE problem. It's like being set up for failure before even coding one line. Fact of the matter is, only NOW is Smed and SOE seeing that the NGE firestorm was NOT just a "vocal minority" and was not something that they could just wait out. It's still out there and it's still costing them money and reputation every day. The NGE fiasco wasn't the result of not listening and assuming they knew what was best. It was the result of DELIBERATELY not listening. Nothing of what he says passes even the most cursory "smell" test. If Smed and his people didn't know after all the direct feedback, all the press coverage , etc that they'd made a mistake and needed to undo the NGE BEFORE they released it or at most a month afterwords, he is admitting that he and his management is incompetent and unqualified. A hollow apology 2 years later (and still not made directly to us, on the SWG site) accompanied by promises to listen to us NOW as they release a publish every 6 months rearranging the deckchairs of the NGE "Titanic" while STILL ignoring what we want (our game back) is an insult. If Smed wants to begin to get back his reputation, and his company's reputation, an apology is only the bare beginning. He HAS to give us our game back, in the form of classic servers. He won't do this. If he doesn't do this, his apology is meaningless and should be taken as such. Words are cheap, John Smedley. Actions aren't. I, and others of the thousands you wronged are NOT going to forgive and forget until we see something tangible from you. Your company will continue to suffer unless you do. Offering classic SWG is the ONLY way out. It's the only way you will EVER be able to answer critics of your company like me. If you give us our game back, you will give critics nowhere to go, because you will be able to say "we apologized and we made it right". Doing the NGE cost you SWG as a viable first rate, Top 5 subscriber MMO. Not "making this right" by giving us our game back will cost you SOE as a viable concern. Mark my words. They are true. You are already seeing this manifest itself in the criticism, in the reluctance in your PARTNERS to claim that they are partnering with you. You need to do this now, BEFORE the next releases on the SOE/Platform publishing label fail and further cement into conventional wisdom that "Sony", "SOE" and "Platform Publishing" are cyanide poison. Might I point out that you run games on your All Access Pass, such as Planetside and MXO that have their own Devs, admins, support, etc, that have fewer subscribers than 5 Pre-CU SWG servers would get you... So it's not like we are asking you for charity. |
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Posts: 9 Joined: 13 Jun 2007 |
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Posts: 9 Joined: 4 Oct 2007 |
I signed up for this site solely to reply to this, in hopes that someone over at SOE reads what I wrote in regards to this "appology".this will be more likely then not incredibly long winded as I am a tad but frustrated from the screw up that was the NGE. 1) appology accepted, allbeit too little too late, I still accept your appology.but bear in mind I forgive but never forget. you commented that they would never knowingly screw up a game bringing in 5 million dollars a month on purpose is well thought out but completely and utterly wrong that is EXACTLLY what they did, my responce to that is quite simple, YES they would if they had a chance to rival the upwards of 120 mill that WOW ( a game that the majority of the dev team plays themselves) brings in monthly, a chance to increase profits with an audience you believe to be around for the most marketable franchise in the world is enough to make any company salivate.which is why you have SWG almost trying to duplicate the simplicity of WOW. just like you have every gamming franchise and console attempting to duplicate what the 2 most successful games to date have done, those games being GTA (for the consoles) and WOW (for the PC). BOTH of these games have been often immitated and never ever duplicated, why they would continue to try is beyond comprehension. now with that said, let me give you the senior editor a small look at the history of why most if not all of us "Vet" players of SWG are completely angry with the way we were treated, 2003 SWG "classic aka pre CU" was released incrediblly buggy, broken, and ahead of schedule, but still we LOVED it. however months go by, people everywhere agree the game is sheer heaven, just completely unballanced and bugged to high heaven, for once SOE listens to us, sort of, what should have been a "balance" turns into an upgrade around nov/dec of 2004, some run to WOW, alot stay for this new "upgrade". take 2, the upgrade is released, done quite well I might add, and MY personal favorite of all 3 combat systems, several things are improved upon, most if not ALL classes are balanced in both pvp/pve, the need for buffs are nullified, armor is reduced so you do not have someone that is resistant to 95% of damage, the go to unhealable health pool of the mind is no longer attackable, the ONE thing that anyone and everyone hates about this version of the game hates is the complete silence we are recieving from the dev team on any number of issues, from the FRS (force ranking system) being removed and when it would be readded, to when are you going to fix the major problems with broken profession templates and bugs, we are finally told around februrary that there will be no new additions to the game, as in exspansions, but that SOE's main focus is on providing us with content, and FIXING WHATS BROKEN. most if not all are AWED and shocked that finally our little prayers are answered.to our utter amazement they do just that, the begin fixing what's broken, still no word on the FRS and a few other things like capitol ships that can be captured and flown, but we all assume it will be right around the corner. fast foward a few months to say june/july the announcement of TOO (trials of obi-wan) is released and will be available to us for digital dl, 2+ weeks early for all who pre order it, ok but we all thought no new exspansions whats going on? why did they lie? little did we know what was to come, so late october very early november is here and everyone whom pre ordered TOO is on mustard fart(mustafar) and loving it, amazing exspansion, extremely challanging and well done, takes some real brains to get past most if not all of the quests, it is literally a planet of nothing but amazingly well done quests as well as kick butt rewards. amidst the release of the pre ordered version of TOO a weird email circulates both in game and on the forums, the forums version is quickly deleted , but you can't stop the one in game, what this email reads is simple, it details every aspect of the secret project that was the NGE, down to the minute details. everyone who reads it thinks it's writer is some loser liar consiracy theorist,fast foward november 4th, everything in that email is revealed to be true. SOE/LA was working on a secret project and wether or not what we feel they do not give a rats arse, come november 15th the NGE which is more "star warsy and iconic" is released, it was the most pathetic, underhanded dirty thing i've ever seen in my life, what was assumed was that the once thriving player base would simply take it on the chin, what was assumed was that we the player base were a bunch of children playing a videogame with mommy and daddy's credit card what they did not expect was for us to be so pissed off about what they did that most of us who had more then one account would simultaneously shut down our accounts and move on, what they assumed is that if they rushed out a completely broken game by black friday that the massive ammount of players who play WOW the 8 million plus would flock to this game. what they didn't assume was that more then 2 years later people like me would still be saying: REMEMBER REMEMBER THE 15TH OF NOVEMBER. |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 6 Oct 2007 | Are you kidding Me? EQOA doesnt have the fan base to warrant a new retail disc. sounds like SWG all over again. No one is listening to the fans. I know of several people who play who quad box. This is equal to 4acct's at 14.99 a peice $59.96.....I know several people that grind for hours to acheive 1 cm Drinking several energy drinks to acheive this $2.49 x5 $13.95 New retail disc.....priceless. I mean come on They are using resources for Vanguard in hopes people's computer's catch up. And I can guarandamtee you if you put out an expansion for EQOA it would fly off the Shelves. Yes iu uses a memory stick but the old version ps2 (big Box) was set up for a hard drive it just never really needed to be used. But I am sure they could design a USB memory card that holds a lot more space. I know my whole family plays the game and we love it. My wife is not a Die hard gamer and she will still play for Hours. She Farms greens in moradhim all day long and likes it LOL. There was a fan base return with the new zone Zp opening but it was a bust due to the long grind times and pain for entry. But there was an increase. I would love to see a re-release of Frontiers in Walmart or Best Buy with a little PR behind. I seen the commerical on the EQOA site. I think only reason for low population atm is the fact Station is only place to get disc. So please lepidus pass this along to Smedley and I mean this in the Nicest Way Follow your gut like you should have on SWG. EQOA has a loyal Fan base we have stuck it out thru all the rough times EQOA has had to offer and we still come back for more. I think your guys in Marketing and Research are not letting you in on What happens in Norrath. I am not sure if you play EQOA but if you do please come and visit us in FP on the CLW server I invite you to come meet the fans see what they say.....But be forwarned some are rude and out of control. But I extend this to you to Come see us and Talk on 10-14-07 at 6pm pst. Time to Walk The Walk see you Talked the Talk in your interview. I have never once seen a CEO do this and would be Greatly impressed if you showed up. Heck you can even use one of my toons. See you in FP Kereck of Castle Lightwolf |
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Posts: 16 Joined: 8 Oct 2007 | I signed up for this sight for 1 reason. EQOA. Whats the deal with this beloved game? Its been said that there will not be an expansion for this game because of lack of player base. Well, thats SOE's fault. Almost no advertising what so ever. Can't buy the game in stores anymore. Only the station store, and not many people know about that site. Hope to see ya soon... |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | Lepidus as a mostly lurker and freeloader of most of these sites, I rarely post an opinion. This whole interview is nothing more than another opportunity for Smedley to apply damage control in a setting that he can somewhat control. If you truly believe that this was an honest interview, then welcome to the club. Another person has been duped by $OE. All the PC games mentioned in this article have had their share of problems but one stands out to me as the shining example of Sony's business practices towards the consumer. SWG's problems can be attributed to just as much fault LucasArts as Sony, and Julio Torres is more of a snake than Smedley. I believe that $OE/LA had all the right in the world to change the game to what they wanted. As much as previous posters have lamented, they also agreed to an EULA that said the game can change online. What they didn't mention and every interviewer to date seems to forget, come question time for Smedley, is what most people consider to be fraud. As a former Creature Handler, I dealt with the ups and downs of my profession, but I was excited for the Trials Of Obi-Wan, when it was advertised that CH specific items would be added to the game. I know other classes had similar promises. So I buy the expansion and then my class is removed from the game. "Here you go, repec and play a Jedi like everyone else." I am sorry but if Sony new about this well in advance, which they did, they had a DUTY to their consumer, to inform them of what they were intending, before they sold the expansion. They did not. I have played EQ, SWG, Matrix online, EQ2 and Vanguard. I had been eagerly awaiting Pirates of the Burning Sea. To this day I still believe Vanguard has the best potential of any MMO released to date. I also believe that it will never come close to that potential, now that it is an $OE product. Quite frankly Sony's policy appears to be "The dollar is the bottom line". Instead of reinvesting into their products, taking some personal pride in their products, they cut their losses and milk the customer as long as they can. This to me is highly apparent in both SWG and Vanguard. Smedley even partially confirms it in the interview, concerning SWG. Lup, I don't fault Warcry for writing the article and shame on those who are trying to sell a belief that this is anything more than it is. It is a Q&A session with one of the most controversial people in the MMO world. If Warcry didn't write it, someone else would and you would be fools to pass up the opportunity. But don't be so quick to defend a man, who IMHO makes a living from spoon feeding BS to consumers in the hopes of making a buck. This article has actually finalized my decision to cancel my Station Pass account. Along with another $OE get rich scheme, Legends of Norrath, this interview has helped me make up my mind. Since LON I have actually been teetering, but good Old Smed has pushed me over to the sane side of the fence. |
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Posts: 16 Joined: 8 Oct 2007 | After reading up on some other articles, about SOE, starting to realize, after years of game play with them, that i have wasted my time and money. I started to check out the 360. and i tell ya this, god dam their customer service owns. And their advertising for their products is insane. Its almost every other commercial where i live. I dont remember the last commercial for any SOE product. Be it a console (PS2, PS3) game or PC game. Really starting to think, more and more every day, that SOE stands for Shitty Online Entertainment.... |
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WarCry Choice Posts: 1986 Joined: 29 Jan 2004 |
Hey there... I think this is an honest interview in that it honestly relates what Smedley said, which is all one can ask for from an interview. It's up to you guys to decide what you think of his words, obviously. Dana "Lepidus" Massey |
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Posts: 9 Joined: 4 Oct 2007 |
i'd simply like to know WHO wrote the questions to ask him? also, why don't didn't the person go with a no holds barred interview.why not let some of the customers of SOE write the questions for the next interview? wether or not you thought it was or is a good interview is your opinion, but you cannot expect US the customers of these games to accept it as it is or was. we want more, we want real questions asked, we want real answers not the fluff that he got. |
John Smedley: Exclusive Interview with the SOE CEO
John Smedley is the President and CEO of Sony Online Entertainment. We had a chance to talk to him by phone last week about his company, the games they make and where they're going. Here's a sample:
Read more after the jump.
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