Steinhauer's Opinion: The PvP Debate

Johnathan Steinhauer's bi-weekly look at the MMO scene takes him to the concept of "Player vs. Player" (PvP) combat. This is a hot issue with stalwart defenders on both sides. Johnathan draws on his MMO experience and asks for your feedback.

It was in Darktide that I first began my online game experience. I was drawn to the server because I wanted a realistic game. It didn't make much sense to be able to battle monsters, but not other humans. Nor was there any recourse on PvE servers against moochers, griefers, or their ilk. I've never been much of a PKer myself, preferring cooperative play, but I did enjoy the camaraderie of defending a town from a raid as well as the general realism it allowed.

The problem I had was getting cut down in a shop or on the street simply on the whim of some punk. The story at the beginning of this column is not an exaggeration, it happened to me. I can only take solace in the fact that I did a bit of vigilantism. I hunted the guy down and sent him back to the Lifestone, recovering the gear he'd stolen from me in the process.

Read more after the jump.

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Wow, 24 hours and not a single post, either this off topic 'journal entry' has left the entire community speechless, or nobody has checked the page this week. Either way, I feel this post is a little offensive in that we are waiting avidly for news on the game release, and have been held off from our 'late summer' launch.

After reading this post, I am now in dire need of reassurance that Darkfall will even have my need for PvP in it.

You want my opinion on the subject? do what the intention was, limit player interaction as little as possible. The moment you add a non PvP realm, is the moment the PvP realm will have no victims for the PKs, and the PKs will get bored and leave.

I have been a PK since Ultima Online (Kryn(UND) of Siege Perilous if anyone knows me) and it was a veritable ghosttown of a server because of the trammel servers. HOWEVER it also had a warning when you tried to log into it that it was for ADVANCED PLAYERS, thereby challenging anyone who thought they knew what anything was in the game. Also, on that note, you were only allowed one char, which meant you were FORCED to interact with other players. What made that so fantastic was that you ended up with a tihtly knit social structure of guilds and allies, sometimes conflicting wars. But my favorite thing about unlimited PvP was one thing. No matter where you were, you could be seconds from getting ganked. since I PvP because I am an adrenaline junky, I loved that, but even that paled to this.

RESPECTFUL GAMEPLAY

If I were say, killing deer, for leather, and a name went running by, it didnt matter red or blue, you couldn't predict what they were going to do. however, if they didnt WANT to fight, they were respectful because it could be a fight at the drop of a gold piece. SO, with a tightly knit social structure, and all those advanced players, if you get some griefer who rez camps, and talks crap over your body (by the way I hate blizzards language barrier) then you would just get on the horn to your guildies, and come rape him for it. There were consequences to being a dick, but enough draw with the ADVANCED players label for even the stalwart NPKs to join the server.

I now play WoW (Manaburn on Gorefiend) merely to pass the time, there are no other games out right now even worth playing, since Ultima Online, I have yet to find anything worth a crap, and now this is being cast into doubt by this journal.

This is the X-UO players Holy Grail, Dont mess it up by casting doubt onto whether or not you will limit player interaction. You want to appeal to the whole community? Im sorry, you can't. The community is divided. If you created multiple servers, how can you expect anyone to join the PvP server EXCEPT the PKs? so in essence, you create a great environment for the RPers, but the PKs are bored, on their own server. How would you draw players to that server? If you create 1 server, ore multiple servers with the same rules, then the NPK players will probly walk away because they cant handle dying.

From my standpoint, this is not a wide community game, this is a game for people who miss the unlimited player interaction, this is a game to reclaim what whiners always get taken from us. you want my opinion on PvP, simple, if somebody pisses me off ingame, what can I do about it?

Ironically, my clan actually discussed this just the other day, (I am malevolence of DSotM) what about teleporting? without it, you ca have localized economies, you can have limited and protected resource regions, and in a game where everything is craftable, and nothing is blessed, this affords us strategic gamelay where geological location leads to better gear, which leads to conflict/trade. if you put in the UO rune setup, bam, thats all gone, However, I would miss out on recalling around looking for victims. A fair trade tho.

Look, plain and simple, I have been waiting avidly for MONTHS for THIS opportunity hoping it would be here by the end of summer (which was over a month ago by the way) and I find this journal a little offensive in its diversionary tactic.

People posted about wanting a 'trustworthy' source to demo the game, and Asp shows up? odd coincidence. Too bad he didn't post about it anywhere.

You avoid posting a release date, but when you said late summer, you missed your date anyways. Whats going on guys, Im tired of paying for WoW and waiting on you.

One simple message is all I have for the Devs:
Clear it up, or Give it up.

cya in 2 weeks for your next stalling tactic.

Hey manaburn, this game will have an alignment system, if you get bad alignment, then NPCs will attack you, even if they're of your own race, that will balance out the unlimited PvP, so that NPKs will be attracted too. This game is being produced by 30-40 people, and Asp. did not come to Aventurine as a part of a "plan" he came there on a buisness trip or something, well to Greece at least.

I agree with you. I played AC for three years. I mostly spent time on the Leaf Fall server. It was one of the best games out there (and still is). I was a new player so the harsh realties of Darktide didn't set well with me... at first. During my last few months I started to play Darktide. I was a hermet for the most part and suck near Oswald's Cave. The only time I ventured far was to go get supplies. It was hard times. I finally found a guild that didn't kos me every time I went to the mansion...
But to answer your question, yes I don't think that DF will be a city gankfest the reasons were mentioned earlier... guards at the city will keep RPKing to a minimum... I don't think for a second that some towns wont be rough but it should be better than what I and you are use too. Also another factor that will probably affect this is the use of the dynamic political map. From what I have heard it will show conflict or a war between neighboring states, and the player law of the land. So to put it in Darktide perspective... If you look at the map you should see if the area you are going into is a Blood or Anti area or see if either faction would be kos. Hope you find this helpful.

wow who cares i dont think any1 cares about any of that pvp shit until they have proof the game is even real

Talon, go back to warcraft, we all care about PvP, or we wouldnt be following Darkfall, they kinda go hand in hand, just like you wouldnt follow a CS:S thread if you didnt like FPS

manaburn:
From my standpoint, this is not a wide community game, this is a game for people who miss the unlimited player interaction, this is a game to reclaim what whiners always get taken from us. you want my opinion on PvP, simple, if somebody pisses me off ingame, what can I do about it?

well, your standpoint is not a commercially viable one, because games of such grand scope as DF need a large player-base to thrive.
And this whining of PKers wanting a free-for-all arena slaughterhouse is a bit egotistical too; DF is making a model of a MMOG to present to the public and (I hope) will not narrow it down to satisfying sexually frustrated teenagers who get a hard-on zerging others ...

PS: DF is addressing a MATURE audience, and by that I don't mean being able to swear or PK but being able to operate in a fluctuating game world through player interaction (ofc war and killing is involved but not the way PKers envisage it)

just my 2c

You ask weather it is possible to make a game that appeals to PvPers and Non-PvPers alike, where the can coexist and positively effect the gaming experience of each other.

Well I believe I've been following a game (for about a year now)that truly has the potential of doing just this by the name of Warhammer Online, I'm a little surprised know one has mentioned it as yet.

It's a RvR type of PvP much like in DAoC as its being made by Mythic so no surprise there.It's based on Warhammer Fantacy miniatures table top game world, so big group battles to win objectives and scenarios, open play PvP and also a thing called public quests all these things will eventually allow you to sack the enemy capital city burning it down to the ground and kill there king.

For the Non-PvPer Mythic say there are Non-PvP safe zones where you dont have to get involved with the PvP, quests and also the public quests, there are dungeons, also what there really excited about is a thing called Tomb of Knowledge, which you will slowly fill in as you kill in PvE, find stuff ect this will also unlock secret goody's for you to use. Plus all the many other things you would associate in a game that PvEer like such as crafting, Guilds which they say there doing some thing new that has not been seen in a game before but we will see.

To say Warcraft is a PvP game in my opinion is a bit of a joke it was tacked on as a after thought that you battle away and gain very little. Warhammer as you PvP you really change the realms and the world around you, if you are PvPer or a PvEer I think you will both like this game.

I looked and read all I can find on this game and I believe this will be the big game of 2008 but we will see.

What I said here really dose not do the game the Justis it deserves as there's is just so much in the game for every one, if you think its sounds good look it up.

I don't think the writer of the article has played too much WoW. IMO Blizzard have the perfect balance of choice and functionality for the PvE'er and the PvP'er.

Instanced Battlegrounds
PvE and PvP servers (character creation choice)
Contested zones vs Faction Territory
PvP flagging
Dueling

I am in no way a fanbois of Blizzard or WoW. I just happen to be a sorry soul that spent 3yrs of my life playing it 12hrs a day, and in fact I am hanging out for Pirates of the Burning Sea so I can trash all my WoW discs once and for all. Nevertheless, I think Blizzard have found as good a balance of PvE/PvP as you could possibly come up with. Good or Bad, WoW will remain the benchmark for MMOs for a long time to come.