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WarCry Choice  Posts: 1986 Joined: 29 Jan 2004 | Dana "Lepidus" Massey |
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Posts: 6 Joined: 2 Jun 2007 | Wow this is great! Best journal ever! Now just add some screenshots on top of that and I'm as happy as can be :-D . |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | yea it was very good : ) |
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Posts: 44 Joined: 3 Sep 2007 | very nice update, every bit of information was useful |
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Posts: 212 Joined: 11 Aug 2006 |
That will be the only option , because they can't find a publisher. Why not just say it like it is for once? Based on this write up , Darkfall is at least 2 years away.. IF it ever does launch.. and if it is 2 years away then it might as well never launch anymore. 2008 is the last chance for this project.. Either it goes commercial with all they've been saying in it this year.... or it fails for good.. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | hello 28days will you get lost already |
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Posts: 38 Joined: 2 Oct 2007 | Well, I must admit I'm getting a little disheartened as well... As much info as this does contain, If they self publish, the game is screwed. I pre-ordered Dark and Light, and I still haven't even received the cloth map they promised, let alone the game. I downloaded it, I played, and it was so pathetic my whole clan left before me, I kept up hope, kept playing, and still, the game just sucked. Unfortunately I even passed up their offer for a refund to all the players who felt scammed, all in the hopes that they would fix it. TO THIS DAY, DARK AND LIGHT IS BROKEN. If Darkfall pulls the same crap, I wont be following ANY Beta games for quite a while. That being said, thanks Tasos, the rest of the info was good to know. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | self publish is fine if the game is good its not if they pull a stunt like dark and light did XD |
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Posts: 11 Joined: 28 Jun 2007 | wtf.. I'm sorry but how in the world could you be surprised from the onslaught of questions? I found that part of this journal to be the funniest. This journal was ok overall. At least something about beta was acknowledged, the rest was just fluff and there were many other important questions than these. I really would like to know what were these "unsusual circumstances" that prevented beta from comming out last summer? Didn't the devs KNOW that they had no publisher back then? Why then, would they set that open beta date? Why then did they set the clan beta date back in '04 or whenever it was? This story is getting old already. Face it, yes this game is poised to be a great game but the way it is being developed has been a 7 year long disaster. I'm sorry but I disagree that you have the "luxury" to do what's best for the game. You do not have the "luxury" of time anymore. Every year you guys wait, the community gets more impatient and the game looks older and older. Now other games are either about to release or starting to be developed that are ready to give DarkFall a run for its money. The fact that if you don't have the time to write a silly little journal just shows most people that this game seems be made by handful of guys in a garage somewhere. If you can't deal with something as simple as 12 questions, how are you going to deal with the onslaught of bugs and hacks that this game will bring. You guys just don't have the man power to create, manage, update and maintain an enormous game at this scale FACE IT already. It is about time that the devs admit some faults, take pictures of the facility, show us a video of someone actually playing the game, PROVE to us that this is not vaporware. This fantasy "Lords from ASP" person was a big joke, who the hell was that nobody knew and nobody cared who that was, we want to see hard evidence that this game is on its way to come out "within the year" as quoted because 3 strikes and you're out, we've been fooled one too many times with the same story. Wake up and realize that the majority of people "satisified" with this "journal" are those that joined the community in '07. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | obviously you never have had to work your ass off and your not given time for anything else XD What ever what are youg oing to do when beta does start and they havent been lieing about ? but i willa gree if not beta here verys oon there going to lose ALot of people and its going to multiply 10 fold with spammers and stuff not after this Q/A it 2 damn pasific to just delay again so obviously you NED TO CHILL THE FUCK OUT |
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Posts: 9 Joined: 31 Jul 2006 | I really like the bit about making a damn good game because that is the only option they have. Aggressive marketing will get you a huge bunch of fans but if your game sucks they will eat you alive. No matter how many cool cgi trailers you made. |
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Posts: 44 Joined: 3 Sep 2007 |
there are pictures of Aventurine offices. check a Df site with pictures and you can't miss them |
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Posts: 212 Joined: 11 Aug 2006 | For the majority of people who have been following Darkfall for many years this latest information is virtually indistinguishable from similar Beta and release announcements made every single year about Darkfall. This is only something to get excited about if you have only been following the development of this game for a relatively short period of time which I suspect is a major reason for the attitudes displayed by the majority of the small but vocal minority that support this game on this site. As a demonstration of the kind of timeline the developers are working towards , check the last mention regarding a Beta date from their Warcry development journals from September of last year:
It takes them roughly 4 months to progress from making an announcement that there will be an announcement about the announcement of the start of beta "very soon" if "conditions are met" The truth hurts and Darkfall devs have been avoiding it for years. It's time to open up what they have to the public or simply admit failure and leave. It's really getting to that point now... if it hasn't passed it already.. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | ugh i give up your an idiot |
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Posts: 30 Joined: 7 Sep 2007 | I had a lot of opinions based upon a lot of posted facts on the DF website which are now gone, thanks to a perma ban for voicing my concerns over on the DF forums. When I received my ban, with no explanation as to why, and no one responding to my inquiries, I have finally determined this game is without question vaporware. If you read the forums, you'll see the biggest questions on the forums are why no video of actual gameplay have been made (one where we can see SOMETHING distinguishable) other than the basic clips we've been given over the past few years (which is like, 3 videos?). Tasos has constantly sidestepped the community, and tried to gently pat the others who want a tidbit here and there. Hiding the features of a game prior to release does make sense, to stave off competitors. However, this long into the game, with many other games with similar features (yes, I realize they dont have everything DF has claimed to offer) and the other games actually having release dates and pre-orders in respectable stores, we clearly can see a lack of readiness on the part of the developers. They claimed at least 1 year ago, if not more, that the game was ready for beta. They have acknowledged they have "server clusters" in place, and a stable server. If they really want serious offers from publishers, they simply need to have a 3-6 month open beta to show everyone the game is not only alive and well, but people are actually extremely interested in playing it. Publishers wouldn't even need to be contacted, because they would see traces of DF in their own games: people discussing in guild chat in WoW, people spamming trade chat, people broadcasting in AoC, Warhammer, the whole scene. This hasn't happened because very frankly, the DF developers are lying to us: they are not ready for beta. Beta is to work out kinks, and test the waters. You aren't making people commit to your product, as they aren't paying to play. The only reason NOT to start a beta is simply because the product is not ready. Anyone who doubts otherwise should take a step back and analyze this themselves. If you can come up with a real reason not to have the server they are testing on house a beta, please enlighten the rest of us. On to the "visits" - sure it's completely possible someone or multiple people have visited Aventurine's software shop. Every single time it has been claimed to have occured, we have seen nothing but what people who haven't been there offer: speculation. No one has played "the ready product" as Tasos confidently states. Ask yourself why that is, I'm sure I don't have to explain it to you. Now: promised deadlines. They've been missing developer journals quite a bit, which right before I was banned from the DF forums I brought up. If you are incapable of getting your team to get you information to post a publication to your fans, you are an incompetent leader, and it reflects on your management. If you can't manage simple tasks like this, why should we believe the game is moving along smoothly? How's that for a Q&A question? Finally: videos. A video of actual gameplay has never been produced. We've never seen anything outside what the general public will term "trailers". We've never seen the controls, we've never seen a siege, we've never seen someone commanding a ship to battle, the list goes on. We have been TOLD these things exist, but we've never seen them. If the team was serious about publishing this game, videos and marketing would be the only things the publishers would worry about. Risk v reward. "If we publish this game, what kind of job has the team done". Think about it this way, and answer honestly to yourself. If you were a company touting millions or billions of dollars, and were going to fund something, would you trust a team incapable of marketing their own product, producing videos, and keeping their OWN FANS satisfied? It's a bad investment at this point, and the only way this game will ever come out is to be self-published. Tasos seems like a smart guy, he should open his eyes and get on it, rather than feed us the typical nonsense and expect our blind servitude. Make what you want from this post, but remember, knowledge is for everyone: DF has banned me with no explanation - and my recent posts made light of things exactly as I have posted above. Why do you think that is? If they are so confident they have nothing to worry about, and the game will be along soon.... |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | damn what a waste of time you took to post that |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | ahh thats why cause of your god damn bitching and pissing people off also calling the devs liars in a round about way doesnt worjt o well not to get you banned get over it really grow up you should now better but if you knew what you was talking about and not just apissed of 10 year old that doesnt know shit you wouldnt of posted that crap |
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Posts: 212 Joined: 11 Aug 2006 | yamisniper - the only one here who looks like a 10 year old is you I'am afraid. Sadly you can't see that. I'am actually starting to think that this person has some type of mental disability or something. |
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Posts: 8 Joined: 12 Dec 2007 |
Wow you've got to be like 12 years old or something, this view is incredibly naive. No successful game had 3-6 month long open beta, that's suicide for sales. Open beta should be the equivalent of a demo, not half a fucking year of playing the game for free. I guess you're too young to afford paying for an mmo yourself and this is some pathetic attempt to get them to do an open beta or something. That long free play time would mean the free online gaming community would infest the game and it would ruin the community completely. Tons of brazilians, polacks, etc all over the place speaking portuguese and polish. You don't do open beta until you are ready to launch the game, as people will determine the quality of the final game on the open beta. Beta killed Tabula Rasa, Hellgate: London, etc in 2007. When people see a shitty beta, no matter how good the final game is, the game won't sell. And publishers don't care about an open beta, are you kidding me? The developer will meet with the publisher and showcase the game and argue for it, the argument MIGHT include that it has a big online following but often other matters are more important as the developer usually believes it can sell snow to eskimos. The fact that they've been developing the game so long without a publisher and distributor shows that they are either capable of self-publishing or that they haven't got enough money to develop the game at full speed. People who cry vaporware forget that Prey took 10 years to develop, same with TF2 and Duke Nukem Forever is taking even longer. Meanwhile titles like Call of Duty are released every other year. Quake 1-3 were released within a span of 4 years and they each had their own 3D engines built especially for them. Doom 3 took and Rage is taking much longer. This doesn't mean ANYTHING. Everything points to Aventurine existing, the game existing and the developers existing. The only reason people are crying about it is because they want to play it or troll forums. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | hey teedle at least i dont spend my time to try to defunk a mmo that you obviously dont care about actully i think adhd does count has a mental issue xD i have to take adderall for work everynite >< |
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Posts: 212 Joined: 11 Aug 2006 |
I don't see anyone crying or trolling. I see them pointing out the obvious commen sense things. If you want to be delusional and not see that then that's your problem. Anyone who actually believes that this project is actually heading down the right path with it's development needs to go see a shrink plain and simple.
No but they all do have MUCH longer closed beta's with thousands of people playing from the public in them for many many months while the games are being developed. So what's the difference? None. Darkfall hasn't even had 1 single notable person or editor from the public play it in 7 years. |
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WarCry Choice  Posts: 2253 Joined: 19 Jan 2006 | Keep it civil please folks. So far, I don't see anything out of bounds. Expressing concerns, even if it's for the thousandth time, is OK as long as it doesn't descend into the realm of the ridiculous. ;) ********** |
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Posts: 1 Joined: 21 Jan 2008 | face it guys this game is never coming. years and years of hollow promises and nothing to show for it. the screenshots and videos don't even show the game is real. time to take your fingers out of your asses and move on, this game is vaporware and is never coming from that |
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Posts: 30 Joined: 7 Sep 2007 | Wow, is all I can say. That's why I got banned from the DF forums: I'd post an informed discussion, and it turned into a flame war. No one has ever been able to seriously just take a step back and read what they've wrote these days. Yamisniper: First of all, I'm 26 and serve in the US military. If you are going to bash someone over their age, at least learn how to express yourself above a 4th grade reading and writing level. Trikk: Thanks for jumping on the board with the age bash, was humorous to see someone who tried to open an almost intelligent post with such an immature comment. The hypocrisy of people continues to amaze me. If you want to get into an intellectual debate, you have failed in so many ways any sane person will laugh at you. 3-6 months of beta will happen whether people want it or not - if this game ever gets that far. Are you too ignorant to see what 10 minutes of research will show you, and what I was banned for pointing out? They've been "ready for beta" in their own words, in 2004, 2006, and 2007. How does one be ready 3 times, and 3 times not do a damn thing about it? Furthermore, how does this company explain to it's investors it can't even be competent enough to meet deadlines of informing it's community of happenings? Oh, here comes your inevitable response: they don't owe the community anything. That's true, but the investors will disagree. If you invest money into a company pissing off it's clients, you won't last more than a year doing such. This company has scraped by for years like this, and all they can possibly be thinking along the way is that the game will be so good that people buy it without ever knowing how shitty the company has treated it's fans. I've been playing Pirates of the Burning Sea, which was promised to be amazing, and even though it's subpar in a lot of areas I love it because the dev team actually listens and cares about it's players/consumers. Most importantly, they are straight up and to the point with us. I am not biased to one game or another, though many people have contended such on the DF forums prior to my ban. I play many games, and enjoy a short escape from reality when it's available. I am not "crying" as you put it about Darkfall, I've merely been following the game for quite a while and believe I have input into the argument over it's existence. If that's a problem for you, why then do you need to flame rather than answer tough questions head on? It's easy to try and knock someone down, but to truly face your own shortcomings is much harder. |
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Posts: 30 Joined: 7 Sep 2007 | Oh, and one more thing I didn't remember to mention to Trikk, who apparently lacks the ability to do any research, but merely pretends he knows how development works.
Ultima Online. Funny how the game I'm discussing wants to so badly resemble UO, and UO had just under 2 years of open beta. Open beta was Winter '96 till October of 1998. So now you're entire points have been completely destroyed, how will you continue to make yourself look even more uninformed? And um, another point. How did beta ruin Tabula Rasa? If people are too stupid to realize beta in ANY game of ANY form will have bugs and generally be bad, they shouldn't be beta testing ANY application or game. That's what beta is designed for. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | umm your right but teedle really just needs to look out side the box |
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Posts: 30 Joined: 7 Sep 2007 | Teedle is a bit combative in some of his posts, but when you look at the constant flames he receives I understand that. Overall, Teedle is spot on in his message, he just sometimes goes about sending the message the wrong way. The thing to remember is I never personally attacked the developers or the staff at DF. I called them out in terms of the facts: how they are missing developer journals. Why I was censored for pointing out facts, and voicing my opinion on how to correct the path of the team is beyond me. But that's what you get when you have a company barely able to maintain a sound reputation in the gaming community: they shut up anyone who brings to light any issues whatsoever. Bigger, more well known games have had their share of critics, and I've never seen anyone banned over voicing facts or bringing to light shortcomings of the game...especially when that person was/is a loyal follower or customer. You ultimately will decide for yourselves, and hopefully information won't be censored here as it was on DF's forums so you can at least make an informed decision. There is a lot of evidence the game exists, there is also plenty to go the other route and say it's never going to come to fruition. |
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Posts: 16 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 |
If your point is to debunk his response that beta should never be that long, your example fails miserably. UO was never considered to be a good game overall. In the end, UO is chalked up along with Shadowbane as being a mediochre game. If you look at UO today and played UO when it first hit retail release, you could never tell that it was the same game. The bonus of UO was the skill based freedom that most mmo's avoid. With the right combination of skills, you could create whatever character you wanted. What's more, it eliminated the monotony of cookie cutter classes which is what darkfall is going to be taking from the UO book. In the end, a beta should be a month or two months long. If the game is large, you could stretch it to three. I've said it several times before and I'll continue to say it until people understand. Beta testing is done for two things: Stress testing to determine whether or not the servers can play the game lag-free. If you're want the game to be released for beta because of any other reason, get comfortable. The game isn't going to be released for any other reason and I applaud Aventurine for waiting to release just because ignorant people want to play the game no matter what the consequences are. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | im just wonderign what all the haters are going to do when they have been telling the truththe whole time >< except for there guessed dates |
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Posts: 212 Joined: 11 Aug 2006 | Have you ever done any research about Greece??? The reason the devs always gave for moving to Greece was because of low taxes , low cost of living etc. But that could not be further from the truth. The truth is that Greece is one of the last places on earth anyone would want to be doing business in. Below is where people are expecting this game to come out and succeed from.
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Posts: 44 Joined: 3 Sep 2007 |
Teedle, I live in Greece and these reports could be as useful as toilet paper. The reason is simple; while there is significant corruption in SOME areas of the PUBLIC SECTOR, there is absolutely no difference from any other country as far as the private sector is concerned. And i fail to see how on earth the excerpt you brought as an example above from Xinhua (who the fuck is this guy/organization anyway?) proves that business in Greece is somehow more difficult to happen than any other place in the world. Most of the obstacles mentioned in there apply to freelance individuals (who btw also hide incomes from the IRS by habit) and not established S.A. corporations. PS: FYI, the growth rate of the economy of Greece is probably the highest (or second highest) in the EU (~4% annually) so Greece is probably one of the first places you would want to do business in (for certain market sectors) amongst the EU countries. |
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Posts: 212 Joined: 11 Aug 2006 | You live in Greece so you're obviously biased.
Figures as much.. What investors would actually give money to build Darkfall for the last 7 years with next to know progress shown? A state funded MMORPG eh?? That should turn out well. |
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Posts: 44 Joined: 3 Sep 2007 |
I live in Greece so I'm obviously better informed you mean. makes sense.
Subsidizations of certain economy sectors have been common in all EU countries as part of the plan to equalize growth and provide a stable ground for competition. Greece is getting subsidized for developing the software market (and other sectors), other countries get subsidized for developing other sectors. If you ask me, it is a very clever move on Aventurine's part and the reason why they can afford to do the game their way and not depend on publishers and marketing. Anyway, not really gonna get into a debate with you on this but I wanted to make some things clear for other people reading these posts since you make Greece appear like some forgotten far-eastern dictatorship state where everything is run by the government officials. |
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Posts: 263 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 | teedle has run out of things to argue about LOL you lose |
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Posts: 44 Joined: 3 Sep 2007 |
hehe, I never take it personally with such comments, and much of what he quoted is true (to the frustration of all Greeks), however it was totally unrelated to Darkfall being hampered whatsoever by anything of this sort. It is like saying that DF is doomed because the trade deficit of Greece has gone up 10%; utterly and completely unrelated to business in the private sector whatsoever...:P |
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Darkfall Dev Journal #22: Community Q&A
In the first of what could be a few new takes on the developer journal series, Associate Producer Tasos Flambouras goes to a straight Q&A of questions he selected from his community. This is obviously a week early of the regular bi-weekly timeslot, not that any fans will complain, I am sure.
Read the Q&A after the click.
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