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What's your opinion on Gothics and other youthgroups?

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I myself think gothics are people who hunger for attention and therefor wear dark clothes and do unorthodox things.
There's just one thing ; What is the universal definition of a gothic? I haven't herd a single one that goes for all of them. I don't think they really know what they are. If you're gothic, don't be offended. This is not to flame gothics, I just want to know what being a gothic really is. Don't post anything about me not knowing what they've been through please, somebody in your family might have died, but is that a reason to go and make yourself look like a gothic?

Gothics have a strange double standard. If i would say something bad about them, I'd be email-bombed with threats and flames. If I were to say something good, once again I'd be email bombed with flames and threats. I went to Gothic.org  to see if they had a "universal definition" and this is what was stated :

"But what does gothic mean in regards to the group of people? Here's where it gets confusing. There are things that many Gothics like that are not gothic (Industrial or Classical music). There are things that are gothic that many Gothics dislike (vampires, interest in death). There are things that some people think are gothic that are not gothic (bands like Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails), and there are things that do not call themselves gothic even if they are considered gothic by most people (bands like Sisters of Mercy and Dead Can Dance). However, there's no Grand Gothic Judge to decree what is truly Goth and what is not, although there are plenty of people who claim to be it. It's an ambiguous label with many people using it that don't understand what it means. The people who do understand it often have many different definitions."

They're saying gothic is just a label. And that there is no judge to claim what is gothic and what is not. That's strange don't you think? Does this mean gothics don't really exist? I find their double standards interesting and I thought I'd bring it here.

I believe Gothic is what you think you are. If you think you are gothic, thats all that be needed. Its too generalised for others to label one thing; entirly gothic. I'm not gothic, however I wear dark clothes (mostly) and listen to what some people would consider gothic (and an equal number not) but I do not consider myself gothic because I am not my view of that genre of style. 

I wear mostly black clothes to but I definetly don't consider myself Gothic. I think Goths are people who have gone through very bad times and are deppressed.

Well "gothics" dont generaly have to be depressed either..i meen i know a good few people who would be concidered gothic and do concider themselfs that but are perfectly happy.. i believe it is just a style to people have.. if they enjoy looking the way they do then its fine by me..i meen its just like saying that someone is "punk" or "preppy" or any other style of dress and act its just the way they choose to look (and sometimes act) i dont really think it should be thought about too deep cause then people will just get confused

If you're a real Goth, where were you when we sacked Rome?

People are Goths cause the poor bastards were brought up by parents who don't give them much attention or any at all. The funny thing is Gothic people are trying to be un-conformusts, but they ended up conforming in the end. :WINK:

Whoa  Jinxz, you sound a lot like Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/) he had a few articles on goths, find em if your interested.

As for my opinion, I have a lot of friends that are goths, but I have a lot of friends that are preps.  Then again, I know a few goths that I don't like, and I know a few preps that I don't like.  Be what you wanna be, wanna be depressed, smoke, wear makeup and black clothes all the time?  Go ahead, its your life, gonna be funny when you 40 and looking back on that, gonna be saying to yourself "What was I THINKING?"

Now don't be to hasty, not all Goths crave attention, I know one or two who look Goth and act Goth, just because it makes the happy. But like it was stated before, what makes a person a Goth? I don't thinks its the clothes, or the hair, or the music. I Beleive they are key parts to being a Goth (well my diffenation of one) and there is still one last thing before you can truely be Goth, cause I know alot of peole that have weird hair, listoins to Metal (which to some is a Goth thing) and totaly black clothes, but he is metal head. The last thing that is missing is additude. Unless you feel like a Goth, then your not a Goth. But that's MO.

Goths wear make up right? Thats just not cool. Most goths I know are posers so I they look and sound like idiots.



Alexander Greenwood wrote:Now don't be to hasty, not all Goths crave attention, I know one or two who look Goth and act Goth, just because it makes the happy. But like it was stated before, what makes a person a Goth? I don't thinks its the clothes, or the hair, or the music. I Beleive they are key parts to being a Goth (well my diffenation of one) and there is still one last thing before you can truely be Goth, cause I know alot of peole that have weird hair, listoins to Metal (which to some is a Goth thing) and totaly black clothes, but he is metal head. The last thing that is missing is additude. Unless you feel like a Goth, then your not a Goth. But that's MO.

Dude, thats what I mean. Not the hair, the clothes or the music, but the true goths is to which I refer.

Personally, I think goths and the subculture as a whole is just silly.  But that's me.  I wear black shirts and listen to Swedish metal, but I'm far from gothic.  Hell, goths don't listen to Swedish metal. :P

ignoRe: http://www.warehouse23.com/item.cgi?SJG9116L

The swedish metal kind.

Aytros: yup, I knew I had it from a T-shirt. Had no idea it was GURPS-Steve Jackson who made it though.

Many goths doesn't feel at home in the normal 'society'. In this alternative society, they find a sense of unity and safety. Much better than starting to hang with criminal gangs.

Why would they dress differently than us if it was not for attention?
They wear black clothes, sometimes even wear make-up to make their skin look pale.
Some have interests in vampires and some have interests in death. Now IMO I think they're not much different than the old youthgroups. Let's take hippies for example. Everybody knows them. Long hair, weed, and they called themselfs a culture or subculture as well. They protested about the war in Vietnam if I remember correctly.

Now for 1, Hippies tried to look different from others because they wanted to be seen for a reason (the war).
Hippies were 'all for' the peace, love, happiness and freedom beliefs.
Where lies this reason for goths? I see nothing they need to be protesting against. Or what they believe in.
Until today I'm still looking for a universal definition of Gothic.

 

Now I found this on some site, See what you think of it. Personally I think it's a load of crap.
[H3 align=center]WHAT IS THE GOTHIC?[/H3]

--"the darker side" of life; a world of pain and destruction/ fear and anxiety which shadows the daylight world of love and ethereality

--gothic fiction consists of a set of analyzable displacements about what it means to be a human being and gendered;

--it strains at the limits of mortality/immortality;  morality/immorality;  reason/emotion; order/disorder; mind/body; masculine/feminine

--gothic fictions are structured as case histories of types of insanity

--we as readers are asked to adjudicate various diagnostic accounts

--pleasure/pain dichtomy: why do we enjoy reading these fictions?

--the fiction as essentially a regressive fantasy: we peer back over our own personal history because all psychotic states are simply perpetuations of landscapes that we have all inhabited at some stage in our early infancy (we all outgrow our "madness")

--accounts of cultural and psychic dislocation

--Barthes' enigmatic code: we identify with parts of the text whose primary function is to keep us peristing in our reading by focusing our minds on unanswered questions, upon a certain pattern of hiatus and expectuancy, unpon a continually postponed hope for a resolution of the uninterpretability of change

--fiction of fear arises at times of great social and economic upheaval;
gothic fiction introduces a prolonged contemplation of the objects in the individual's internal world at the same time there is a repeated vindication of the individual's ability to survive despite threat

--landscapes of childhood: narcissism; incest; violence and vampirism; androgyny and sexual anarchy; the oedipal triangulation; the family romance; projective identification (I am the Other) and splitting are the two dominant psychological defenses

--like other romantic texts, the gothic deals with interruptions in the maturation process; they are tales of recuperation or reparation; resistance to loss

--the gothic exposes the essential instability of the domination and submission patterns in the fantasy; creation of doubled characters; self-other relationships revealed when we realize that the hero never shares the stage with a heroine; if the text focuses on a heroine, then the male has to be a split figure: villian or weak "hero"
--in their quest for identity as masculine or feminine, all the characters appear to be enthralled to fragmentation or disintegration

Robt Hume distinguishes between two sub-genres of gothic:
1. novel of terror = Radcliffe (
female)
2. novel of horror = Lewis, Monk (male)

conventional trappings = heroine, hero and villian, clouds, castles, mystery, inevitable travel sequence that transports the characters from everyday life, educates the reader about foreign lands, and casts a general aura of mystery about the proceedings

adult fairy-tale; immersion in "enchanted castle"; woman's body

assault on the castle gates, room = metaphorical rape

heroine leaves the known (childhood) to venture into unknown (adulthood); pauses in a sterile wasteland (pre-sexuality) and then moves through a never-never land (courtship, magic, illusion, dream) to arrive at full sexuality (adulthood and chaste marriage).

inherent ambiguity and ambivalence lies at the core of the genre's appeal

orphaned heroine searches for surrogate parents, only to find her parents by finding her self; her most sinister enemy is her own awakening sexuality; heroine's task is to destroy the mythic beast within, for the wages of passion are madness, disease, and death; virtues are repression and sublimination

orphans are social outsiders; they seek social approval and kinship
(Foucault on kinship and alliance)

values of silence, rectitude, balance (mind of a man and heart of a woman); restrained emotions and strength of character; century's idealization of Virgin Mary

heroine plays role of aetherialized maiden, brave young detective, symbolic quester of her own and others' identities

theme of female powerlessness; motherhood was source of women's greatest power

"The posture of romantic victim concealed thwarted dreams of power"

EDIT : I'm going to make a list, which is ready by the weekend to try and counter whatever they're saying, Half of it really doesn't mean a thing.

[Edited by Jinxz at 5:30 AM on 3/9/2004]

I think it depends on the person. Some goths want attention, some goths just like the style, some goths are fake and conformist. Some may be like hippies, but not all. Its just fashion.

I have never met a person who was really a Goth. I knew this because the week before they weer "Ganksters". Its all just dum to me just do what you want.

Jinxz: Think of the clothing as a uniform. In an army, the uniform showes which side you belong to, and what gives a sense of community. IMO, dressing the same way has the same reasons in civil life

What the hell kind of thread is this?  Look, there's a dude dressed in black with pins through his shirt and big boots!  Let's discuss why he has this extraordinarily odd and unorthodox (god forbid!) behavior.  Let's say that he's an attention-seeking pothead even though we don't even know his name.  Let's try to define and further deviate human beings.

I don't care if someone is different from everyone else.  Hell, I wear a lot of black.  I just think the goth sub-culture is absolutely silly.

Agreed.

I don't really care either but the make up thing. Awakens my rage. I don't know why though it just makes me want to hit them.

I think  gothic chicks are dam hot!!

[Edited by Koga_Ringo at 10:22 PM on 3/9/2004]



Flaming Patella wrote:

I don't really care either but the make up thing. Awakens my rage. I don't know why though it just makes me want to hit them.


I feel the same way about people who sag thier pants. It looks so stupid!



Deskolas wrote:


Flaming Patella wrote:

I don't really care either but the make up thing. Awakens my rage. I don't know why though it just makes me want to hit them.


I feel the same way about people who sag thier pants. It looks so stupid!


On a similar and yet unrelated note, my friend and I almost got into a fist fight in the mall a couple of weeks ago.  These white guys were trying to look black.  I mean, I looked around for cameras; it was so bad that I knew it had to be for some bad comedy movie (think Malibu's Most Wanted x 10).  I cannot express how funny they looked.  So my friend and I couldn't help but laugh.  They tried to start some shit and we responded.  They quickly walked away.

Its hilarious how big they act, but yet never "Walk the walk".

I guess it helped that my friend was wearing steel-toed boots. :P

Come to think of it, I hate the whole 'emo/punk' thing much more than the goth image.

Oh me to!!!

My friends to make a band kalled kate.

Kill all the emoes.

I

 

Aha, I wish those damn Gangsta kids would just realise that acting like a complete idiot, isn't cool. I hate them so much, I wish I could just rip of their heads and shove it up their A##es. Why do they think it's cool to keep their pants low, try to rap every second, and make fun of every one you doesn't like rap! I don't hate Nazies as much as those ass-wipes, and I can't stand Nazies!

Yep. It's also really dumb when they call themesleves "pimps". It's so retarded.

ok.. never have i seen a wigger call himself a pimp, they must really be dumb where you are.

To Koga: If you were with me and Kyle, you would have seen these 4 white kids calling them selves master Pimps, I was terrable, plus because Kyle is a Metal Head, they thought he was idiot and a loser and wouldn't stop acting like complete assholes.

but really who do you think is worse, Wiggers or Goths? I would say Wiggers cause they get all in your face for stupid reasons.

Agreed.
Goths usually keep to themselves.
Except Jeff Shaw.. I am going to kick his ass.

Yah Jeff is a ass, but I think he's more Metal head then Goth, he does seem to wear the maicup, plus all the metal band shrits.

ahhh wats the difference. They are both people who either starve for attention, or actually enjoy dressing that way because they believe they look good that way.
Jeff Shaw is just a starve for attention.
He's just like the fans on Slayers new DVD. Man they are absoutly retarded.

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