All right, guys. We want to hear your opinions on the matter - we're not trying to shut anybody up for disagreeing with us, here. This is a discussion that needs to happen, but getting it off on the wrong foot - whether by taking a "screw you" tone straight off the bat, or breaking forum rules by starting a new thread referencing a locked thread - doesn't help anybody.

We understand that you guys are upset. It's fine to be upset. In the long run, though, we think that this is a move that will only benefit both of the communities. Yes, to you they're "necroing" threads - but to them, they're coming over here and are eager to participate in the discussions, not knowing that the threads are older threads. Sure, some of them are badge farmers and spammers - and will be moderated accordingly - but on the other hand, hostility and isolationism only breeds hostility and isolationism.

This is a conversation that needs to happen, but it is also a conversation that needs to be polite and respectful - of both sides. As long as you can express your viewpoint in a polite way, you are more than welcome to be part of the discussion.

So - the floor is open.

Moon says he thinks the idea is silly, and I think it's dumb.

LivemeLifefree:
Moon says he thinks the idea is silly, and I think it's dumb.

Um...care to expand on that?

To which idea are you referring, Liveme?

Moon can't reply, as he is banned, but he wanted to let his opinion be heard that the "Corner" idea was "silly", as he says.

I can understand why escapists are looked down upon on WarCry- yes, there are people who come here solely to get a badge, but there are certainly Escapists who come here hoping to be able to post and discuss things. The latter group is at a great disadvantage when it first arrives at WarCry.

I know the first thing I saw when I came to WarCry was that most of the regulars here thought of me and others as badge farmers and people who wanted to up our post counts without worrying about content. There were a few nasty PMs, as well as a few nasty forum posts about my being here in the beginning.

Now that I've proven I'm not really a post-count whore, I feel like less of an outsider. Still, it's like I had to undergo a rite of passage to not be met with jibes and snarky comments in my first few weeks.

Not something I like, and especially not something a public forum should be doing.

I just wish that the badge for coming here would be removed. Then escapists who didn't have anything to contribute would have less reason to come here and spam, and WarCry people wouldn't have to worry as much that an escapist was just looking to make an achievement by posting irrelevant content on these forums.

EDIT: And what's this 'Corner' that people are mentioning?

Well in all fairness I am a Warcry homie, I had never heard of the escapist til I came here. I go on the escapist now just for the contests which makes me just as bad as their badge farmers.
I am not too popular or well liked on here even, most people don't like my sense of humor or my opinions but it is my home.
I don't really care about necromancers raising dead threads or what not, and I trust the moderators to protect us from the spamming crap.
I will miss some of the rats that are jumping ship or being thrown overboard as the case may be. Their posts are part of the reason I keep coming back.
In closing I have never bad mouthed an escapist or newbie that had something to contribute, I only bad mouth the idiots looking to advertise their gold selling site or who hate MMOs and just come here to grief.

Peace is boring,
Bloodyleach

Thanks for clearing that up, guitar.

And thanks for your post Jamanticus.

I understand the frustration of dealing with new people coming in who don't know the rules. It can muck up what is much like a home to you guys on the internet. Whenever someone new comes in, there's the potential for ugly to happen, but that's the internet.

The WarCry forums have been around long before The Escapist came rolling around, and the WarCry forums have been trolled/spammed/low-content-posted for long before The Escapist existed, too. Just as guitar said in another thread, the mod queue works. It's worked for years. Report, and move on. There are many of us here, and several of the community, who keep an eye on those queues.

You may call these ideas (the Vagabond badge and Corner) silly, but they have been planned and executed carefully. Yes, there's a possible downside to every human interaction. But they've allowed people to find new friends and communities, as well. Liveme, you originally came to WarCry in the first place because of the badge, correct?

The Corner will bring annoying people, no doubt, just like the release of Diablo 3 or Darkfall (har) likely will bring annoying people. But these things will also bring more Jamanticus-sorts. Adding new people to the communities - BOTH of them - keeps them fresh and interesting. Yes, it has a possible downside. But in the end, there is more good that can come from the flow of people between two really cool communities.

Long, drawn out dissertation of why this is actually a poor idea will be forthcoming. First comes real work, though. For now:

Andraste:
Liveme, you originally came to WarCry in the first place because of the badge, correct?
.

WOAH! NOW! I came here to get away from the Escapist. I found a new community without having to create a new account. I call flame! FLAME! SLANDAR!

Also, figured I'd say this, I voted for Gamespot.

I just like to converse in an atmosphere that is welcoming, trustworthy and least mature, if intelligence and insightfulness are unattainable.
The delightful notions of humor that can be derived from simple pleasures, uncomplicated and uncontroversial joking, and the fact that would can make up words (ie: "insightfulness") are all the things that attract me to this community. And I wouldn't know where to start looking for a similar new haven.

I came [to the Themis Group community] as a total newb, and I thank God that I found the Escapist back in days of old far before the badge system, when the moderator Joe was in town and punishment for spitting on the sidewalk was swift and merciless.
(An aside, will Joe ever ever be coming back, Funk?)
The community is much larger nowandays altogether, and if we plan on ensuring that we can erect a new Renaissance of Video Game appreciation, we have to take the incentive to be non-hostile, forgiving and friendly, regardless how queer that sounded.
Repaying evil with good sound cliché and absurd in a literal sense, but think in the context of World of Warcraft:
Back when you were a low level, some high level dude ganks you for no reason. When you're now the high level looking at the new players, don't bother ganking them just because it happened to you, because then you're just continuing a vicious cycle that improves nothing.

This seals the deal for me. I have enjoyed posting here at warcry for years, and especialy enjoyed the off-topic regulars. However, things have changed, as I have mentioned many times. I also feel, based on the actions leading to this thread, and what I feel to be condescending tones towards certain people (by the mods) , and what apears to be,basicly, a shrug of the shoulder towards people who have been here for years, leads me to a new perspective of what was once a home environment for me,and this new perspective is of disscontent.

In the end, what I would reffer to as the "Inner circle" of off-topic posters, are no more then a grain of sand on the beach, or possibly a human tossing rocks at a tank in attempts to achieve change.

I would happily continue socializing with you guys (you know who you are), but maybe this isent the best place for that anymore.

For what its worth, there were glory days, but they have come and gone (in particular areas), the warcry is evolving as it has been for some time, and perhaps those who share in the general feeling of frustration will stay, but for me, this marks the end.

In closing I would like to compare this situation. For some of us, warcry was a small town, but it has now become more of a city. I hate the city.

PEACE!

P.S ill check my mail here if any of you wish to contact me.

This is a weird topic for me, considering unlike Jamanticus, I'm still the odd man out here in the WarCry forums. I've made a scant few posts here, most of them lengthy and elaborate while still being on-topic and pertinent. Though, I think I'll share a quiet, noninvasive tale of my well beyond humble beginnings here on WarCry.

My first post here was on a topic about the constant immaturity and inconsiderate manners of Escapist visitors, their incessant habit of appearing on these forums when a Forum Vagabond question is asked and proceed to derail and necromance several sections in the name of higher post counts, more badges, and probably self-perceived understandings of greener pastures. This was the worst possible foot to start on with my first post, but my own personal sense of community overrode whatever common sense I may have had. Though, tone civil, I mentioned to the opening poster (who I believe was MoonPenguin) that this was the sort of thread that furthered the hostility between WarCry and Escapist.

At the time, I was researching the posting history of mrcheese, who had four of his top five posts at that time concerning being condescending and dismissive to Escapist users with primarily posts consisting of "FARM DAT BADGE". His signature, which read "If you a pink lightsaber or anything March Madness in your avatar, get out!" did not help soothe the waters. Though, I tried to very civilly explain my peace, and got a very pleasant conversation out of Chi, MoonPenguin, and guitar.

I posted very briefly after that, but never felt like there was any mercy for incoming Escapists. Folks like FeNinja and Jaman did very well to cross the barrier, but I still felt as if I was the odd man out staring into a new world where I was begrudingly accepted rather than given any fair judgment of character. This was perhaps the tone that kept me from really making a home out of WarCry, though I still consider this site part of my forum rotation. It is also somewhere I would like to visit more regularly, perhaps a more inviting home if I didn't feel so alienated.

Though that is a story neither here nor there. I'm still unsure why the hostility for the Escapist still exists here. Though we aren't necessarily attached at the hip, we're still related sites and both gaming-centric. There's no reason we couldn't get along normally by design. I think it is because there's a decidedly negative outlook of one group on the other. To remedy this, Kuliani, CTF, Andraste, paulgruberman, and Susan Arendt have all worked very hard. The merger of the communities is an achievable step if some of the animosity can be set aside. Though I'll admit neither side is without blame here.

I think what I should be working toward saying is trust the staff and moderators. They've all been here long before I have, and they've done a stellar job up to and during my stay here on the Themis Media web communities. I have nothing but trust that they will continue to do an amazing job with these sites.

Sorry to see each of you go, shizzie, mrcheese, and Chi. Having been part of this community for so long, I am saddening that I missed your company. Here's to hoping the rest of us (Escapists and WarCry users) can co-exist peacefully. If even only to have indignation against the idiots because they are idiots, not because of where they are from.

What the hell is going on ??? what's this corner i hear about? where was i, why is Cheese leaving? :O

Leafar:
What the hell is going on ??? what's this corner i hear about? where was i, why is Cheese leaving? :O

If you scroll to the bottom of the forum index, you'll see something listed as "The Escapist Corner". On the Escapist, there is a mirrored one called "The WarCry Corner". In response to this new feature, mrcheese created a thread (found here) discussing how he considered the Corner a bad idea because it opens the ground for Escapists to spam the WarCry's threads in order to raise their post counts and achieve the Forum Vagabound badge. Kuliani disagreed with this sentiment, and the thread was locked. MoonPenguin posted a response thread (here) stating that mrcheese's thread lock was unfair, sparking a small debate about how WarCry locals disagreed with "The Corner" system. mrcheese and Chi announced how this apparent spam-encouragement was the last straw for those two.

Leafar:
What the hell is going on ??? what's this corner i hear about? where was i, why is Cheese leaving? :O

Ditto on that. A "merger" of communities is nothing more than an erasure of the current Warcry community and in a way a justification of badge farming and the other associated evils that has caused the majority of the animosity between both sites.

The reason those of us that post on Warcry post here (and have for many years) is because of the fact that we can have a pertinent "ever evolving" conversation without it being lost in the abyss of meaningless threads that is the current state of the very active Off-Topic forums of the Escapist.

Whatever you do don't candy coat it. A merger of communities? No. You will be doing away with one community altogether.

I could be misunderstanding completely, and if so enlighten me to exactly what is going on...

I think "The Corner" concept was blown out of proportions due to the way it was introduced to our community, and it appeared as an imposition rather than an invitation.

Regardless of the effects this little corner might bring, *you* are the community of WarCry and you make it what it is, and by abandoning it for a trivial attempt at a more open forum, you are giving it away.

WarCry needs to grow in order to survive, and as the old guard, you need to support it throughout this period and beyond.

well... I only understand 3/4 of what was said. I understand so much that kinda crossover was made to push the frequency of activity again here at warcry.

Well I have a few points too.

1. Warcry quite seems to be frequented by lots of visitors. My sig-thread has now over 800.000 views and it's growing and growing several 100 views a day... with new sigs posted it crazily goes up each time.... so there are ppl come here... point is to make interesting threads to make ppl participate (I know this is not easy... but this is the problem)

2. I think that administration should not act from a throne and politely ignore the points of the longtime experienced regulars here. Your tones are polite but you act too superior. Come down a bit to an equal level, show that you are better managers than those who lead companies in RL ;)
In fact I think you should listen to the regulars and gather all informations and contras and then find a compromise which is for the best of this site.
Well I hope that this thread will lead to this compromise and is not just for being a channel to let out the opinions until everything is silent again....

3. It was a mistake to ban MoonPenguin. He's a longtime regular. It is offending to treat so valuable members like that. He should be released from his ban immediately with an apology. The fact that he was banned shows that administration knows not so much about interior daily forum forum work and likes to behave superior with waving the almighty banwand.
So act as good managers and listen to your veterans.

... I saw many big sites going down for very different reasons. Only if administration values and respects their veterans and opinions of fellow moderators the site can survive if there can be found a way by all which leads out of the crisis.
Show cooperation, show good leadership !

....
edit... oh and I like to add that when I searched some time ago for a very big gaming forum where I could do my sigs, that it was 'WarCry' and not 'the escapist' who showed up in my websearch as one of the biggest and most frequented sites... so it's worth to think over ideas and continue the individual 'independent' way of the site....

Greever:

Leafar:
What the hell is going on ??? what's this corner i hear about? where was i, why is Cheese leaving? :O

Ditto on that. A "merger" of communities is nothing more than an erasure of the current Warcry community and in a way a justification of badge farming and the other associated evils that has caused the majority of the animosity between both sites.

The reason those of us that post on Warcry post here (and have for many years) is because of the fact that we can have a pertinent "ever evolving" conversation without it being lost in the abyss of meaningless threads that is the current state of the very active Off-Topic forums of the Escapist.

Whatever you do don't candy coat it. A merger of communities? No. You will be doing away with one community altogether.

I could be misunderstanding completely, and if so enlighten me to exactly what is going on...

If we wanted to do away with the communities, or merge them completely, we would do so. The boards run on the very same system, so it would be easy to do a literal merge. If we wanted to destroy the Warcry community, it would be equally easy - we do have the proverbial off-switch, after all. We don't want to do either of those things.

We intend for the Escapist and WarCry communities to be their very own, yet we wanted to encourage crossover - less merging, more mingling so to speak.

Well said Wandy, I hope they start thinking about what you said.

Sigoya:
I think "The Corner" concept was blown out of proportions due to the way it was introduced to our community, and it appeared as an imposition rather than an invitation.

Regardless of the effects this little corner might bring, *you* are the community of WarCry and you make it what it is, and by abandoning it for a trivial attempt at a more open forum, you are giving it away.

WarCry needs to grow in order to survive, and as the old guard, you need to support it throughout this period and beyond.

Quoted for fantastic truth.
Several patrons of Warcry [including myself] have been invited to a new private forum, and from what I can perceive it's only delaying the issue of the fact that the internet will eternally get bigger and if we can't be bothered to take the initiative and produce a stronger voice of welcome and sincerity than the darker portions can, then "The Internet Culture" is already a lost cause.
Saying that if two communities have a bridge built between them is destruction is simply being lazy about the issue of the those who traverse it.

Additionally, Jamanticus postulated to me in an instant-message chat that it could be a 'Racism' to be so discriminating the Escapist. While I support the notion that hating the Escapist is ridiculous, racism is a wide term and therefore would encompass the whole of the internet. Would it be impermissible to be intolerant of 4Chan /b/?

I don't really see the problem, the two have always been sister sites, and the new corners just encourage mingling, rather than spamming. The two still have different orientations, and have different users, I don't see that a lot will change because of this idea. If anything, people will avoid the other site, as they can have their say in a specific area on the forum.

Really, Warcry has to stop with the hostility towards new members, otherwise it'll just wither and die.

This conflict appears to me as very tribal. It's an elaborate case of "get off my lawn!". You have so called "badge-whores", and we have Yahtzee fanatics. Each of our forums has their portion of annoying users, but that'll be the same in any community. Just learn to live with it.

As a 'new' member, I was never met with any hostility or rudeness when I joined, I just joined in the discussions, and that was that. So as far as I can see, there's no issue with new members, it's the ones that come in, post a one-liner and go that causes the most issues.

From the outside looking in, as I'll admit, I'm not one of the 'inner circle' here, what point is there in making a well thought-out post, if all you're going to get in return is 'lol I agree' 6 months later. And saying the moderation is there just doesn't work. I report several spam posts a week, and see nothing done.

There are 2 choices to solve this really: either create more forums on the escapist, so that all people that just want to make one word posts can do it there, and get their badge. Or just remove the badge entirely. Create a link on each site to the other, not strictly to the forums, just so if people feel they want to contribute, they can, without the badge-farming getting in the way of it. That way, WarCry people will know about the escapist, and can post there if they want, and vise versa. Forcing the forums into one another is only going to create more reactions as we've seen.

Hello to WarCry from a regular Escapist poster, I have posted here before but not for any badge, because like you I like banter and MMOs. I've never been subjected to flaming by any of your users and hopefully we can keep it that way. One-word posts are already looked down on and if someone does one the obvious thing to do is report them right? So lets keep it that way, if anyone from my home disrespects you then they will be punished. But it's not fair to see you pigeonhole us like this so lets not judge the book by its cover. Don't tread on me! Here's hoping for a brighter future.

I think the antifeelings are not for new members or members from the escapist coming here.

The 'fear' behind everything is:
' Now WarCry needs the help of another site to get more activity into the forums.... how long and WarCry will become a subforum from The Escapist? Or how long and there will be a fusion between these 2 sites? ' > Then the individual and independent way of the WarCry forums will die.....

I like the idea of the corners on each site.

I would never have come to the Warcry forums without it, and I'm impressed by the small but dedicated community that you have here. It seems like a really nice forum, and one that I'll enjoy posting in.

However, I have been put off by some peoples prejudices against people coming over from the Escapist. I understand that it must be quite annoying having people coming onto your forum and making one word posts before leaving; all for the badge.

We're not all badge farmers though, and the mast vajority of us are coming here to post honestestly and constructively.

I felt the need to read this post after moon linked it to me.

With a large portion of the most active warcry posters gone, the forum is essentially escapist regulars posting.

This thread is a perfect example, 80% of the posts here are from escapist members bitching about warcry.

Seriously, this place is just an escapist subforum now, may as well make it official.

It is rather a change, the Escapist being looked down upon, as it's so commomly the other way around.

And Mrcheese has a point, this place is likely to just become an escapist subforum. And that's not the Escapist users' fault.

It's becoming the user's fault. They're treating it like their personal spamm board.

mrcheese:
I felt the need to read this post after moon linked it to me.

With a large portion of the most active warcry posters gone, the forum is essentially escapist regulars posting.

This thread is a perfect example, 80% of the posts here are from escapist members bitching about warcry.

Seriously, this place is just an escapist subforum now, may as well make it official.

What I still fail to understand is why this is a problem. You seem to show concern not for the content of the forums, but that Escapists are showing up. This is my biggest beef with the comings and goings so far. The fact that Escapists are now aware of WarCry does not mean anything except that traffic will increase.

If there are bad posts and mistakes, it is of the fault of bad new users, not necessarily of Escapists. All this means is that these people need to be reported and punished, not that Escapists need to be punished. All "The Corner" is doing is showing availability. Stupidity and idiocy of posters has nothing to do with the origin of the poster, and everything to do with that individual's conduct. If they are doing something wrong, then work against this person.

The question of whether or not this person from Escapist, WarCry, 4chan, or his mother's basement is completely moot point. You say that this has become an Escapist subforum because regulars are leaving. It is that user's personal preference to leave as a result of a user's misconduct. It is not due to "The Corner", or any community initiative, it is because users are idiots. Not Escapists.