California Senator Wants Fewer Guns in Games

| 6 Apr 2013 15:57
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Senator Dianne Feinstein has suggested the government should pass in-game gun restrictions if the game industry doesn't self-regulate.

Late last year, the tragic massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newton, Connecticut shook the country to its core. It's an event that spurred new debates on the issues of guns and violence in the United States, and will likely continue to ignite passions for years to come. As often happens in the wake of such events, videogames have fallen back under the scowling gaze of those who believe them to be an instigator of violence in our society.

Speaking to a crowd of five hundred in San Fransisco on the subject of gun control, California Senator Dianne Feinstein leveled criticism at the game industry, suggesting that the government should consider taking action to reduce the presence of guns in videogames. According to Feinsten videogames play "a very negative role for young people, and the industry ought to note that. If Sandy Hook doesn't do it, if the knowledge of these videogames this young man played doesn't, then maybe we have to proceed, but that is in the future."

Feinstein is not the first government official following the events in Newton to push for new restrictions on videogames. In early February of 2013, State Representative Debralee Hovey introduced a bill to the state legislature that would have levied special taxes on violent videogames in the state of Connecticut. That same month, again in Connecticut, state senator Toni Harp pushed a motion to make it illegal for minors to play arcade games involving fake guns.

It's important to remember, of course, that videogames, thanks to the Supreme Court's decision in the 2011 Brown vs. EMA case, now enjoy the same first amendment protections as books, music and film. Even if a measure were passed by the government in an attempt to restrict the content of games, there would be tremendous legal precedent to help opponents strike it down.

Source: CBS 5 KPIX via Game Informer

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Mycroft Holmes:

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This is the real culprit this is the real problem. This is the data set that is consistent with murder rates. The HDI is the human development index and its a hybrid of several things such as average income, life expectancy, education. It's basically a standard of living list. And go figure when people are worse off, they tend to murder each other more. I know, its shocking. But hey lets keep talking about guns.

Thank you, sir! So it's not guns that kill people. Neither is it video games. It's lack of a decent living standard which kills people. As a gun-hater and pacifist, I can't do anything but cheer at this fact.

Desert Punk:

Ruley:
Has nobody considered the lax attitude of children's parents towards guns? i know of households with small kids where their parents own and shoot guns in the back yards. AK-47's, "dirty harry" revolvers, etc... hasn't anyone asked that if the role models of kids use these things like toys and shoot for pleasure, what is their option of guns going to be? Thus when combined with parents being irresponsible again and buying kids M rated games, what will the result be? disrespect for weapons. treating them as toys not tools. I admit i don't know what i'm talking about here fully, however i think its a point that needs to be raised.

Generally, I think it is better for a child in such a situation to grow up not really being afraid of the item but respecting it. I will grant that there are stupid and irresponsible parents, but the reasons you listed are not among them. My father had AR-15's, .44 revolvers (The one you call a dirty hairy), shotguns, and damn near everything inbetween, and we went out shooting often. Shooting for pleasure is not a bad thing no matter how much your government/culture might try to drill that into you. It is no worse, nor any better, than any other pass time.

And I did play M rated games damn near as long as I have been gaming, and guess what? I dont treat any of my weapons like toys, they are well maintained tools, which I show proper respect to as I would anything else that has the potential to be dangerous.

As you admitted, you dont know anything about what you are talking about, so best not to comment.

Of course it is better for a child to grow up respecting firearms, that is the best way to introduce them to such destructive weapons. But unfortunately, that's not always the case. I never said that shooting for pleasure was overall a bad thing if its done in a safe controlled environment where gun safety and control are emphasized throughout. At no point did i deny the existence of such people who do responsibly introduce children to weapons and raise them right. Its fantastic that you've been raised in that way, i say that without irony, satire or anything, truly. i wish your family example was standard across America. But my family over there always have horror stories, their are expectations to the majority.

Again, i played M games in my childhood, i'm now graduating with a first honors in physics with a job lined up when i graduate and i fully admit my gaming hours per week is towards the high end of the spectrum. I would appreciate it if you didn't amuse i'm making a personal attack on anyone and implying that their is nobody who shows respect to weapons. i didn't state that i was anywhere in my comment. I am fully aware that videogames can be enjoyed and not turn people to violent life choices. i too an example of that as you yourself are too. (as is the majority indeed, but unfortuantly tje minority can spoil it for everyone).

i admitted i didn't know what i was talking about in a first hand experience capacity. do you really need to get offense in your defense when we could have a reasonable discussion instead? i've not shown any hostility in any of my comments and i don't appreciate it being leveled at me with no precedence.

So Feinstein finally went full-retard. This is by far one of the most embarrassing responses to Sandy Hook. At least the Newtown townspeople had the grief to justify the idiotic video game burning.

Hagi:

That's what's called defensive. An inability to keep your aggression in check when challenged on your points.

Who said anything about inability. I said I'm a hyper aggressive debater. I never said I couldn't act in any other way. I have a completely malleable personality, like a social chameleon. I just find this more fun.

Being defensive requires being emotionally invested. I don't feel emotions like a normal person, nor do I get invested in their issues. The world will continue doing what it is doing no matter what I say, and will continue to do so for thousands of years. I tilt at wind mills for the sport of it and not for the honor of doing the right thing.

Of course it doesn't really work though when the person I'm arguing against keeps putting words in my mouth to make themselves feel better. Keep convincing yourself that you're better because I'm 'flying off the handle,' as you back track every dumb statement you make.

Hagi:
As for your comedians, that's what all comedians everywhere do. They make fun of things, first and foremost the society around them. It's nothing unique to Americans.

Who said it was? The US just has way more of them, and they are by and large way more world famous than most other comedians. The Daily Show is very well known in Iran for example. No other countries have that kind of wide spread popularity for their comedians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stand-up_comedians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_stand-up_comedians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_stand-up_comedians

The US and UK are so big they have their own lists. And the US is easily twice as large as the UK list. We pretty easily poke fun at ourselves more than any other country in the world does. And yet you say we don't make fun of ourselves enough. Clearly the rest of you are the ones who take yourselves too seriously.

Hagi:
You're still the only country, besides North Korea, that goes around claiming to be the best on a regular basis. And for that, you get made fun of by the rest of the world, it's not really all that big a deal to get as upset over as you seem to be.

Again, reading comprehension. I answered a couple of stupid questions you had asking 'why politicians in the US act like idiots' and 'why it's only in the US that these things happen.' I answered by pointing out that these things happen all over the world, and you need to open your eyes. And I answered why our politicians are they way they are, by basically insulting their entire Constituent base as well as everyone else. I called the US citizenry fat, slothful, greedy, wasteful, ignorant, workaholics. And you act like I've been praising it.

Do you read English. Do you understand letters and how they form words and sentences that have meanings? If so please try to actually read posts before commenting, it's a bannable offense to do otherwise on some forums. And it's the least you could do.

I'm sorry that you have an inferiority complex about your country, but it's not our fault that Europe demolished itself and left us with more industry than the rest of the world combined and such a gigantic lead that it took you guys this long to catch up; I mean, if you guys are China that is. I'm also sorry that you demolished all your armed forces, killed off like 10% of your total populations, hid mines everywhere, blew up most of your cars and houses. But it's really not our fault. Nor is it our fault that we are a democracy and the people who vote most are old. They still remember the time when we owned 90% of everything in the entire world and they are too slow witted to realize that the only things we are still the best at are non-competitive eating and blowing up brown people.

But I am not one of these people. And bringing up random irrelevant conversation topics like, 'the USA isn't the greatest,' means you're either debating an imaginary person or you don't understand how to read. If the former than please take your medication. If the latter then I can recommend some programs that might help you. You don't have to live your life with your poor reading skills dragging you down; you just need the right teacher who is willing to take things at a slower pace so that you don't get lost.

Huh you know, after doing a bit of research, it seems the thing that is fucking the united states over most when it comes to guns, is our fucking nations capital!

Deaths by guns per 100k pop: 16.5

The next closest is Luisiana at 7.7

Only solution to even out the problem? Nuke washington DC, it will have the added benefit of ridding us of all the idiotic politicians as well! (For those too dense to get it, this last part was a joke)

That's right, blame video games. Ignore the fact that your 'doctors' are paid millions of dollars a year in kickbacks by the drug companies to ensure that every 14yo in america is on some kind of mind altering drug because It'll help them.

Fucking bullshit.

You want to stop this sort of shit? Make selling an illegal gun a federal crime with a minimum of a 10 year prison term, do a huge crack down on doctors who get kickbacks and have tax cuts on legally registered guns, making them cheaper for normal citizens to get them.

All you anti-gun prats might want to look at some figures. Guns are banned in the UK and here in Aus, and guess what reduction in violent crime we had after they were banned?
That's right, violent crime increased. Increased DRAMATICALLY. Oh no, people aren't getting shot anymore! No, instead people are getting stabbed with large, germ infested knives and being beaten by groups of 4-6 young guys.
Protip: You're more likely to survive a gun shot than a stab wound, especially in the stomach/bowel or lung. A bullet is perfectly sterile when it enters you, meaning no infection. The only exception to this is jacketed hollow point, which is banned in war and should be banned at home anyway unless you're law enforcement.

And I wish there was less idiots trying to use games as a scapegoat to explain the violent nature in humans, but alas, it looks like neither of us will get what we want.

You know what I absolutely love about this story?

The fact that she wants less guns in video games PROVES that she thinks having less guns is a proper solution. The only problem is, having less guns in video games doesn't fuckin' solve the real gun problem, does it?

Ruley:

Again, i'm just trying to point out America is sidestepping the real issue. that such ready and free access to guns is the statistic most drastically different to other countries and that's the issue they should be addressing!

This isn't the real issue at all. Do your research or don't join the discussion.

You can't compare less country than you can count on one hand and then call it a data set. If you want to do that then we can play all kinds of bullshit games with what's to blame for murder rates. Luckily some people have actually sat down, where you ran off, and took the time to research exactly what is causing murder rates.

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See how those data points are mostly random? Not totally random of course because you may note that the countries with higher civilian gun counts are actually on the lower end of the spectrum compared to the countries with relatively lower numbers of guns that stretch out further on the murders. But mostly the point is it shows that murder rates are quite disassociated from gun numbers, and to point out that the "issue they should be addressing" is most definitely not "ready and free access to guns." Which really shouldn't be a shock to anyone. Do people really think that people just pick up guns and go hey I think I should kill someone today!

image

This is the real culprit this is the real problem. This is the data set that is consistent with murder rates. The HDI is the human development index and its a hybrid of several things such as average income, life expectancy, education. It's basically a standard of living list. And go figure when people are worse off, they tend to murder each other more. I know, its shocking. But hey lets keep talking about guns.

Mycroft Holmes:

Hagi:

No need to get so defensive mate, it's perfectly acceptable to laugh at your own country for a bit when someone representing you does something stupid.

I'm never defensive. I'm a hyper-aggressive and somewhat mean debater, I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference.

That's what's called defensive. An inability to keep your aggression in check when challenged on your points.

As for your comedians, that's what all comedians everywhere do. They make fun of things, first and foremost the society around them. It's nothing unique to Americans.

You're still the only country, besides North Korea, that goes around claiming to be the best on a regular basis. And for that, you get made fun of by the rest of the world, it's not really all that big a deal to get as upset over as you seem to be.

Relax mate, this is hardly worth getting so pumped up about as you're getting. There's no need for aggression or getting mean, just chill out :)

Ruley:
Has nobody considered the lax attitude of children's parents towards guns? i know of households with small kids where their parents own and shoot guns in the back yards. AK-47's, "dirty harry" revolvers, etc... hasn't anyone asked that if the role models of kids use these things like toys and shoot for pleasure, what is their option of guns going to be? Thus when combined with parents being irresponsible again and buying kids M rated games, what will the result be? disrespect for weapons. treating them as toys not tools. I admit i don't know what i'm talking about here fully, however i think its a point that needs to be raised.

Generally, I think it is better for a child in such a situation to grow up not really being afraid of the item but respecting it. I will grant that there are stupid and irresponsible parents, but the reasons you listed are not among them. My father had AR-15's, .44 revolvers (The one you call a dirty hairy), shotguns, and damn near everything inbetween, and we went out shooting often. Shooting for pleasure is not a bad thing no matter how much your government/culture might try to drill that into you. It is no worse, nor any better, than any other pass time.

And I did play M rated games damn near as long as I have been gaming, and guess what? I dont treat any of my weapons like toys, they are well maintained tools, which I show proper respect to as I would anything else that has the potential to be dangerous.

As you admitted, you dont know anything about what you are talking about, so best not to comment.

Has nobody considered the lax attitude of children's parents towards guns? i know of households with small kids where their parents own and shoot guns in the back yards. AK-47's, "dirty harry" revolvers, etc... hasn't anyone asked that if the role models of kids use these things like toys and shoot for pleasure, what is their option of guns going to be? Thus when combined with parents being irresponsible again and buying kids M rated games, what will the result be? disrespect for weapons. treating them as toys not tools. I admit i don't know what i'm talking about here fully, however i think its a point that needs to be raised.

Lets go one step further. First person shooters are incredibly popular all over the world. here in the UK and ever over in Asia. Why does nobody pay attention to the American politician (sorry, i cant remember the name!) who said they looked at these contries, the number of videogame sales per person and how it was similar to america, however the number of school shootings or similar horrific acts were next to none. I cannot remember a school shooting here in the UK, the only one i remember was a man who killed 7 people with a shotgun in the lake district and i don't think anyone ever mentioned videogames there, possibly because he didn't play them? i'm not sure.

Again, i'm just trying to point out America is sidestepping the real issue. that such ready and free access to guns is the statistic most drastically different to other countries and that's the issue they should be addressing!

Hagi:

No need to get so defensive mate, it's perfectly acceptable to laugh at your own country for a bit when someone representing you does something stupid.

I'm never defensive. I'm a hyper-aggressive and somewhat mean debater, I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference. And if I was being defensive about my country, why the hell would I insult half my 'countrymen' for being slothful cowards, and the other half of ignorantly working their assess off to the benefit of the few at the cost of their personal health and the cultural and political well being of the country. Did you even read my post or do you just not have a damn clue what 'being defensive' means?

Hagi:
As for hardest working, that's another reason your country gets made fun of. This sheer insistence that you're the best. You're not the hardest working people in the world, there's not a single piece of statistical data pointing that way. If you want to talk most hours worked then I fear South Korea and Japan have got you beat by a mile. If you want to talk productivity then take a look at Norway and Luxembourg first.

Productivity is irrelevant, I'm not talking about working smart I'm talking about working hard. And the US comes in on every top 10 list polled for most hours worked. Out of 196 countries we work pretty fucking hard. Perhaps you don't understand idioms. I was saying we are one of the hardest working countries in the world far beyond the point of sanity.

Hagi:
So relax, take a deep breath and sit back. Your country sucks balls. Just like everyone else's.

Well, at least we can read for understanding, which is more than I can say for you.

Hagi:
The only reason you get made fun of so much by others is because you're not doing it yourself and keep insisting that you're the best. So somebody's got to pick up the slack you know.

Who the hell said anything about best? Listen if you want to write your own imagined post and then respond to it, all power to you. Just don't quote me when you take your imaginary person down a peg. I said richest and asserted that we are one of the hardest working countries around. Both facts. And if you think that's what makes a country the 'best' then honestly I have nothing else to say to you except that you might find reevaluating your priorities to be beneficial.

And you should probably try to be less ignorant of everything. You act surprised that elected politicians are moronic in a country that has long since stopped listening and now just views every election like a sporting event to cheer on their arbitrary team and parrot the 3 talking points they learned. So I explained it to you.

You act like no other countries have politicians who have done anything stupid, that the US is a "special case of stupid," when there is an obvious panoply of countries that have done just so.

Now you are saying that we don't make fun of ourselves? Are you entirely unfamiliar with comedy? We are one of the most self insulting countries in the world next to maybe only the UK. Bill Hicks, Steven Colbert, Jon Stewart, George Carlin, Bill Burr. Most of our most famous comedians spend most of their time insulting every group they can find in America. Pointing out that this country was founded on genocide. Pointing out what we did in Waco Texas. Laughing at America's own religion being formed by a convicted fraud and a bunch of gullible fools. Colbert insulted George Bush to his face, and kept going while the audience stood aghast occasionally laughing uncomfortably. Bill Hicks laughed at the ignorance of rural southerners for asking him 'what are you reading for.' George Carlin could be perhaps the most famous comedian of all time and he kicked the idea of 'The American Dream' right in the freaking balls.

And you think we don't make fun of ourselves enough? You're a fool plain and simple. There is not a single facet of the US that hasn't been insulted in front of a stadium audience of thousands of people or on cable TV for hundreds of thousands.

"Only a nation of unenlightened half-wits could have taken this beautiful place and turned it in to what it is today. A shopping mall. A big fucking shopping mall." -George Carlin, probably praising the good people of the US because we never make fun of ourselves. No sir.

Nghtgnt:
With this thread in its 6th page, it's likely someone has mentioned this by now, but hey, maybe she's right - younger kids shouldn't be exposed to excessive videogame violence, at least without parental supervision. In order to accomplish this I suggest that the industry create a board to rate entertainment software. An "Entertainment Software Rating Board" if you will. The job of this "ESRB" would be to rate games based on content, so parents could take some responsibility and have a hand in deciding what their kids should and shouldn't be exposed to.

Crazy, I know.

Oh, and by the way, since the Sandy Hook shootings keep being brought up, remember those news reports that mentioned one of the games the shooter played a lot was Dynasty Warriors? Well, I've played an UNGODLY amount of Dynasty Warriors myself over the last couple of DECADES, and oddly enough I have NO desire to massacre children. In fact, the only way that game has affected me was making me interested in reading the book it's based on, Romance of the Three Kingdoms (which is, in turn, based on the "Three Kingdoms" period of Chinese history).

Also, Feinestein is, unfortunately, my representative. The really scary part is that the people who ran against her in the Democratic primary are so far out there that SHE was actually the reasonable one by comparison!

Meh. that book is TOTALLY biased to Shu though. Seriously reading it is like "And the Brave Shu soldier's smote the wicked, traitorous wei filth with their LAZER eye vision, and were showered with rainbow's and halo's over their righteous heads while the fodder of Wei rolled in the mud pleading for mercy squealing like pigs in their own filth."

Jamous:
But why reduce virtual guns that do no harm to anyone other than irritation? Especially when there are plenty of -real- guns that can and do? It would be a tenable position to hold if she was actually advocating nigh on universal gun control but it doesn't seem like she is....

But she does. And people who support gun control (outside the milennial generation, that is) are also the same people who want to ban video games. You support the positions of your biggest opponents.

Zachary Amaranth:

canadamus_prime:
But we don't want fewer real guns in the hands of people now do we?

You might want to look at the record of the woman in question. Senator Feinstein was behind the Assault Weapons Ban in the 90s and the proponent of the current one, including some of the toughest regulations out there.

I hope you were kidding, and not in the way that's most obvious, but people have been so straight up on not doing the research around these parts that my radar's fried.

Anyway, I support most of her initiatives on guns, but this one's inane.

She can take pry my shooters from my admittedly pacifistic cold, dead, arthritic, cheetos-encrusted hands!

RatherDull:

If I had to point at one thing and say 'That is the reason," personally put the focus on mental health and depression. After all, there is a proven link between depression and shootings.

[citation needed]

That being said, gun obsession makes it really easy for people with mental health issues to get firearms. You know, since we have a lobby who doesn't even like the mental health restrictions we have now, never mind opposing stricter ones. The fear that '[whoever] don gon take awr guns!' leads the the refusal to follow even the most sensible steps for dealing with gun violence, including mental health and criminal issues.

If mental health issues are something you consider a big deal, then gun obsession is something you should consider key as well.

But no [citation needed] from the other side of the issue, now is there? I'm sitting on around five dozen links that you would instantly assume are paid for by the NRA, because they show the US as VERY low on gun murders per capita, compared to much of the farther-left world, and Red States having the lowest murder rates in the country. But of course, my sources and I would be lying. Here's just one, because I'm bored and overheating. http://infogr.am/include/php/embedded.php?graphicID=collegepolitico_1364355518&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redstate.com%2F2013%2F04%2F04%2Fthe-only-gun-infographic-youll-ever-need%2F

Mycroft Holmes:

Hagi:
Is there some sort of conspiracy going on to make the states look as horrendously idiotic as possible?

This is how democracy works in a rich 1st world country. Especially America as we are still the richest and by and large the hardest working. The sane people go to school, they work their asses off, come home and don't have time to honestly pay attention. And they have too much to lose, no one wants to really make waves because it means quitting their job, it means decreasing their prosperity. It means they can't buy the new iphone or the big new plasma screen. We are shoved between people who are too overworked to put the mental effort in, and people who are too slothful rich and fearful of losing their relative prosperity to care. So when politicians try to get elected they realize that the bulk of the population is stuck in this ridiculous I wear blue, go donkeys! elephants suck! bullshit team spirit from people who don't have the time or don't take the time to get acquainted with the issues.

So they go after the only swing votes available the lunatics who scream about homosexuality at funerals, try to kill abortion doctors, who try to ban video games, or think that George Bush should be hung as a war criminal. Because they know everyone else is too afraid to lose their luxuries or too busy with work and school to actually learn any of the issues and vote beyond arbitrary party lines.

Hagi:
Because seriously, this sort of thing seems to be a special case of stupid not found anywhere else...

Then you must not be paying attention to other countries because there's a lot of stupid politicians saying a lot of things all over the place. Look at Egypts first round of elections. Or Switzerland banning a particular architectural style and France banning types of clothing because they were afeared of Mooslems.

No need to get so defensive mate, it's perfectly acceptable to laugh at your own country for a bit when someone representing you does something stupid.

As for hardest working, that's another reason your country gets made fun of. This sheer insistence that you're the best. You're not the hardest working people in the world, there's not a single piece of statistical data pointing that way. If you want to talk most hours worked then I fear South Korea and Japan have got you beat by a mile. If you want to talk productivity then take a look at Norway and Luxembourg first.

So relax, take a deep breath and sit back. Your country sucks balls. Just like everyone else's.

The only reason you get made fun of so much by others is because you're not doing it yourself and keep insisting that you're the best. So somebody's got to pick up the slack you know.

So that picture in the article is she with plenty of REAL guns behind her. I just cannot understand the logic behind her reasoning that taking away virtual guns will cause real gun violence to stop or at least decrease.

What an absurd society, refuse to do anything about real guns and desperate to restrict pixel guns.

Look, you can use whatever scapegoat you want, be it healthcare (which just points out further problems with the American economy), homelessness (see before), or entertainment (as has been identified by the senator in question) but the more real guns you have in a country the more likely it is one of those guns will get pointed at someone.

And surprisingly enough, sometimes people shoot those guns too.

Australia realised it well enough that the government paid people to hand in their guns. We learned that after one massacre, and that was decades ago. Guess how many gun massacres happen in Australia today?

I don't know if the American government can find a similar strategy, given how deep into debt they are and how reliant the economy is on firearms manufacturing, but you've got to find a way to take away real guns, not fake ones.

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