FemDevs #4: Feminine Legacy

If we've established that MMOG development and the MMOG user-base is dominated by men, then can we also concede that the members of this discussion list are at the vanguard of female involvement in the genre? If that's the case, what do you feel has been your contribution to furthering the presence of women in the development and user space for online games?

Being a parent, I'm always concerned with what sort of path I'm carving into the world for my children to follow. Whether you have children or not, what sort of legacy do you feel you're establishing for the girls of today that will be the developers of games in the future? Is there anyone in the history of game development that has inspired you or allowed you to feel more accepted as a woman in the game development marketplace?

Julia from Cyberwarrior:

One of my contributions (most notoriously) is bringing to the table the concerns many women have about their *available* representations in-game. (i.e.: fishnet armor and pasties don't make a warrior) Although I also have an eye for detail, attention to normally over-looked potential customers, and understanding the web of social problems that are natural in virtual communities (leet doods happen)... some of this gets overshadowed by the above mentioned 'activism'. Generally, I'd be happy if these games didn't have to target women and female developers, but at the very least put some effort to make the work environment and in-game space not repulsive to us.

Above all else, these skills have really manifested in the way customer service is handled in Rubies of Eventide.. I can't be more proud of our GMs and mentors for the quality and CARE they provide in our game. The GMs are for the most part 50:50 male to female... there's no affirmative action to get women involved but if she's qualified and we need help, she's in. (Same goes for the guys. If its a toss up we hire both)

Most importantly, everyone should try to talk to girls in colleges and work to dispel the whole "dominated by men" stereotype of the games industry. It's not doing anyone any good =/

Take a little time to mentor young men and women to be more thoughtful of the worlds/realities they're creating with technology and no one will lose.

My biggest inspirations in the gaming field have been Roberta Williams (Kings Quest was awesome), my old BBS sysop JenJen, my first female friend in college (and also a GM and big time LARPer) Rebecca "Beckie" King, and last but not least Mark Reinhaggen (author of "Vampyre: the Masquerade" and former CEO of White Wolf).

Serafina from WorldFusion

To address the topic, I view myself as female and as a game designer, but not as a female game designer. I think the words are more powerful individually than together. Each of those words carries a certain weight in their own right. However, used together it seems to diminish their weight, because they are now qualifiers for each other. Why qualify that I'm a female designer or that I am a designer who is female? It is limiting. Is this making sense?

Anyway, most of my professional life has been spent in male-dominated industries and jobs. So the game industry does not really faze me much in that respect.

I guess the legacy I would like to leave behind is to show people (girls or anyone else) that labels and qualified terms (like female designer) are something constructed from other people's notions. You can *never* (and I mean never) control what someone else thinks about you. So be wary and mindful that you do not fall prey to the habit of labeling yourself the way others see you. Accept yourself and be true to your nature.

This is a creative industry, so I think it is more important than ever to impress upon designers that acceptance from other people is not required. Accept yourself. If you look to someone else for it, then you are fulfilling their view of the world, not yours, and it is your views from which your creativity flows. Don't give away one of your most valuable gifts.

Sanya from Mythic:

I think something's wrong with me. I don't even think about this stuff. I technically shouldn't answer at all, since I'm not (nor do I want to be, which no one ever believes) a game designer. Females in PR/marketing aren't exactly outside the norm, anyway. People only notice because I'm surrounded by males.

About the only time I notice is when one of the Dear Players talks about the sexual favors I must have granted to get the job he so obviously could do better. And then I'm just profoundly amused, considering the story of my hire was adorably rated G. After I got hired, there was a certain amount of friendly flirtation (ooh, new girl, sniff sniff sniff - come on, ladies, you know what I mean), but it was all in good fun. I did the math awhile ago - in 2005, 20% of Mythic will be married to each other :)

No one has EVER implied that there were things I couldn't do as a woman. I've never been made to feel powerless or uncomfortable. Plus, I have secret weapons. Not THOSE weapons, jeez, I pay Victoria's Secret for those. ;) Most of the time I slouch along in jeans and t-shirts with the rest of these loons. But a guy in a suit is just the same guy cleaned up - a tomboy in full "battle dress" (makeup on and hair done) is a creature with some serious power.

Besides, my experience is without exception that game guys are good guys, nice guys, and smart enough to be educated when they're unconsciously being swine. It helps to not be looking for reasons to get twitchy.

But on topic... hrm. My non-caring - that's the best legacy I can give a little girl. I don't think about it, I don't have to fight any battles; I don't have to overcome anything at all. I'm just me.

Ophelea from Warcry:

I've had to think about this one a lot. I'm neither a game designer, nor even an OCR as are many women on this list. But, I know that I'm unique in heading a gaming network. And one of only two women I know that head an MMP network (EGCore being the other).

Add to that I have two young boys.

So, what is my legacy to girls? Well, I'd have to say that I'm teaching my boys that women are equals in all ways that aren't determined by biology; that women can understand technology, games and even male players. That we're not threatened by "maleness" - for us it just is. Just like femininity is part and parcel of being female.

My legacy? Hopefully two grown men who find women as people first, women second.

Keeper from Turbine:

In my three years of making MMORPGs, I have never been made to feel as if there is some dividing line between the women working here and the men. Because we are out to achieve the same thing (a fun finished product) we aren't competing with one-another. Therefore, I've never seriously considered that I might be paving the way for an army of future female devs.

I have, however, helped out in training new artists and art interns here, male and female. My goal has been to get these newbies up to speed and producing quality art as quickly as possible. I have also striven to get them feeling at home here. If I've been "carving a path" for the interns to follow, hopefully I'm setting an example of plain-old "being a nice person". Nobody wants to work with people who aren't nice, right?

I have thought a good deal about what sort of an impact I have on the players of our games, but that path isn't gender-specific either. In particular I have worried about those people who have a tendency to play computer games to the exclusion of the rest of their lives. It saddens me to know that there are and will continue to be people out there who harm themselves playing the games that I've made. I don't know what I can do for these folks. The majority of players are responsible for themselves, and it is for them and for me that I make games.

Srand from Turbine:

Well, I suppose I'll chime in here. Like a lot of the respondents so far, I don't actually think in terms of 'establishing a legacy' or 'furthering the presence of women' in games. I'm just here, doing what I love and presumably being competent at it, and if I happen to serve as a good example, so much the better. "I'm here. I'm q- err... female. Get used to it." I like to think that I am also an example in terms of my dealings with other people; although I know that I am not by any means gender-blind, I do try to operate as if I were, and I hope that that serves as an example of a good way to operate.

While I am talking about this, I think I'd like to make a related point. I should have brought this up during topic #2, I think, but I missed my chance. It's just this: I love what I do. I love the game that I make. It remains one of my favorite games of all time, and that's not just because I work on it. *grin* I don't feel that my game panders more to the male psyche than to the female. I certainly don't feel like I am part of some conspiracy to add male-biased content and game play to the market. In Asheron's Call, we concentrate on adding a wide variety of content, but a lot of it focuses on exploration (a.k.a. sight-seeing) and acquisition (a.k.a. collecting) -- and I don't think that either of those basic urges is restricted to males. Does my game have more male players than females? Yes. Why is that? I think most of it comes from historical and cultural trends, and to some extent economic misunderstandings in the advertising space. But I don't feel that I am directly responsible for those areas, nor am I particularly interested in expending my limited resources on speeding up changes that are already occurring in those areas. So -- my point: My goal is to make the best games I can, games that are enjoyed by all sorts of people, male and female. I feel that I am accomplishing that goal right now. Everything else is secondary to me.

Cindy Bowens from Sigil Games Online:

Well, I am guessing I am a lot older than most of you on this list. So my perspective may be a little different. I am from a generation of women that were told as little girls that we could grow up to be a teacher, a nurse, a secretary or a mommy. Growing up, I did not know of any women that did anything but the jobs on that very short list of professions. I can remember people I knew being outraged that women were "taking over" jobs that "should" belong to men.

Ok, now that I have shown my age and sound completely ancient, I have to say that I am thrilled every time I hear my teenaged daughter weighing her options for her future. She is a junior in high school and is wavering back and forth between a number of different things she would like to do. Honestly, I could not care less which path she chooses for herself. I am just happy that she has so many options from which to choose. The idea that there might be a field that is dominated by men and might be difficult for her to enter has not occurred to her.

She has seen me leave a very unhappy marriage to pursue my own dreams. And thankfully, I have been successful at what I set out to do. So it is my hope that my legacy to her is to teach her that it is possible to do things that might be difficult and to succeed at finding what you want. I am also pleased that she sees me in a male dominated industry, with all of its ups and downs. She has had the opportunity to meet many strong women in this field and see what they have accomplished. I could not ask for better role models for her.

While that may not translate to being a legacy to all young women, in my little corner of the world, it has meant a lot. I can get very emotional when looking at young women today and seeing the choices they have before them. I feel a little proud of all of us for forging ahead into yet another field that has not always been welcoming to women. The more we contribute to this industry in our own ways, the more this field will be seen as an option to young women as they choose their own paths.

Gaile from ArenaNet:

You know, I read all the responses with interest, and then I stopped to do a little memory check. This may be tangential to the topic, but I keep reading that I'm from the generation whose female members were given limited career choices. I hear that amongst my age group, girls and young women were firmly informed of their (few) options, and that they then felt proscribed by those limits. And yet, looking back, I can specifically remember that I was never, ever told that I had limits upon me because I was female! Was my situation unusual? Or are we looking through the glass darkly, sort of blindly perpetuating a current-day myth about the recent past?

If there were such limits, who set them? Our mothers and grandmothers? Well, these would have been the women who, though strength and grit, survived the Great Depression. Who, during World War II, went into the factories and built the warplanes and the munitions needed in the war effort. These are the people who kept the country going in a million ways while their husbands and sons were away at war. Would these same women -- who had proved how capable they were and who had stretched the general perception of their capabilities -- have then turned around and said "Oh, no, my daughter or granddaughter can't do anything besides Job A, B, or C." I don't think so! Would their husbands and sons, who owed them so great a debt, have stated "Not my daughter" for any career that she desired to pursue? Again, I just don't see it.

I'd agree there certainly were limitations upon females in the early 20th Century and before. But where did the "limits" come from that would have affected any of us? Can any one of us say, "I was told I could not do (this or that) because I am a female?" I'm genuinely interested to know if women working today were given barriers when planning their careers and their lives. For I know that I surely never was.

Anyway, on the topic (sorry for the ramble!), I think the hoped-for legacy of female developers is the same as that for male developers: To make great games that people love to play and which we can look upon with pride. I believe that each of us brings a unique perspective to what we do, and that the greater the diversity of the team, and the greater the sensitivity and respect each team member holds for every other, the better the games will be. So from where I sit, the future is rosy. With every woman who becomes involved in the industry, more may feel inclined to pursue a career within it. I'd say it is no longer a "non-traditional industry" for females, and with more women involved with every passing year, each of us will have an influence in making better and better games.

Ophelea from Warcry:

Well, I'm not old - 32 - which doesn't exactly make me a baby either.

In my junior year High School English Honors Class - this would have been 1988? We were each asked what we wanted to do for a living and then stand up and speak about it. I said I wanted to be a structural engineer.

My then-teacher said that it would be "a mistake". That I was a "people-person" and should go into flight-attending or something that included customer service.

She and my best friend actually ARGUED in class about what type of person I was.

It wasn't THAT long ago. But I think that the ladies on the list, we're all 20ish-40ish which means WE are the ones that are sensitive to being told what we can and cannot do. Because of this, we don't see the barriers our mothers did. But it really wasn't that long ago those barriers existed - else we wouldn't be able to recollect them.

Carly from NCSoft

As an aside, I remember reading once that it was like 1973 before a woman could own a credit card that did not require a co-signer in the form of their father or husband.

Gaile from ArenaNet:

Responding to what happened to you at school, Ophelea: I wasn't there, and obviously don't know the intent. What I wonder is, was what you were told a "barrier" or a compliment? I never felt when someone told me "You're a people person" that I was being told "...therefore you can only do Job A, B, or C." I heard is as "You have an ability, and you can couple that with other strengths and abilities and end up in a job you love." Not surprisingly, having heeded that advice because it's where I wanted to go anyway, I ended up in a position that involves lots of interaction with people. Again not surprisingly, I love it.

But my point is: When the teacher said you ought to consider something that involved people, were you being told "You're not capable of being a structural engineer?" Were you told "Girls don't do that job!"? Or had the teacher recognized a certain ability in you, and was he or she encouraging you to consider your strengths when setting your career goals? Perhaps I'm seeing through rosy-coloured glasses, and if so please forgive me, but how does saying "You're -good- at something" limit you, or form a barrier? I'd say it was a sincerely-offered suggestion on what you might pursue, not a firmly-offered prohibition on what you might -not- pursue.

When I hear "barrier," I think of things such as "We cannot accept you because you are female." The beloved author Beatrix Potter had difficulty presenting her research on a significant scientific discovery in part because of her gender. Her findings were rejected at the time, but have since been proved to be true. But that "A woman cannot..." or "A woman isn't expected to..." was back in 1897!

I've not heard of someone in recent times turned down for a field in which she is infinitely qualified simply because of her femaleness. I've not learned of someone who was rejected for college or a job, because "You shouldn't get into (insert job here) because you are a 'people person' and should be more directly involved with people." It seems to me that an applicant having people skills is a plus, and that such skills would be more likely to land you a job than they would be to limit your horizons.

Ophelea from Warcry:

You know, I neglected to mention the part that made me so made (my dad is an engineer).

She said she found engineers to be narrow, dry MEN that were too focused and had little of the empathy found in a more "ladylike profession"

Rather an important part I forgot there. But then, I hadn't thought of the incident in years.

Gaile from ArenaNet:

Oooh, well, now, that -does- tell a different story! So she wasn't disparaging you, she was putting down an entire profession, and the males within it, with some pretty rude stereotypes! That's just sad.

Cindy Bowens from Sigil Games Online:

I am sure that some women growing up in "my day" were told they could do anything they wished. And I am sure some of them did just that. But I can assure you; these barriers we are discussing did indeed exist. I was told by my mother, my aunts and my teachers that there were only a few jobs women could do. In fact, I have been thinking about it and I don't recall ever being told anything other than that by anyone in authority in my life.

Oops: I forgot a couple of professions on my previous post. I could have been a ballerina... but with my coordination, that was out. And I thought about being a stewardess. But I wasn't sure I would be able to cut it. I remember a teacher telling us that to get into the stewardess program; you had to be tall, thin and very attractive. I actually remember thinking, "Darn! My mom is so short! I probably won't be tall enough to be a stewardess!"

But I can think of a number of reasons these "barriers" might have been worse for some of us than others.

First, the area in which we grew up has a lot to do with what we learned about our roles as women. For example, someone growing up in a bigger city with large and modern schools may have not received the same types of messages from their parents and teachers as someone living in a rural farming community. There is a great deal of difference in what a young person might be exposed to in these different settings. I have talked to other women my age that were definitely encouraged by their families and teachers to pursue other things. But for most of us growing up in my generation, we did not hear this.

Another factor is economics. Many families could not afford to send their children to college. This was before the time of grants and scholarships being as easily obtained as they are now. I personally knew families that could not afford to send all of their children to college so their choices were to send their sons rather than their daughters. The thinking was that hopefully, their daughters would marry and have their husband's income. So they did not need the education that their brothers did.

And finally, there was the lack of opportunity for experience and women role models in particular fields. Little girls had a place, and it wasn't with the boys.

My sister is a few years younger than me and she is very athletic. She wanted to play baseball more than anything in the world when she was in grade school. But guess what? There were no baseball leagues that were open to girls. Heck, there weren't ANY sports open to girls where we lived! Finally, she convinced a coach for a community league to let her play because she was damn good. But she always played with her hair tucked in her hat and no one except the coach and her teammates knew she was a girl. But one day, her hat fell off during a game and her long hair fell down around her shoulders. She was met with boos and jeers from not only the other team, but the people in the stands. We are talking about adults, here... not other kids. Can you imagine such a thing today? Can you imagine adults clamoring for the head of a child because she was trying to play baseball?

My father worked as an engineer for the phone company. I can remember when the first woman was hired to work with him. The company hired her because they were forced to do so under the law. I heard this woman called every name in the book. I heard my father talk about ways all the men tried to sabotage and humiliate her: Because, after all, she was taking a job away from a man.

These are not things I have read about in a text book. I remember these things clearly and they shaped the way I thought and my own self perceptions. I feel that I owe the women that DID ignore these barriers and forge ahead in spite of the obstacles in front of them a deep dept of gratitude. I was able to have a better life and offer even more to my daughter because of what they endured and accomplished.

My daughter cannot even imagine a world where there were signs in businesses that said "Whites Only"... but I remember seeing them. Nor can she picture a scenario where someone would tell her she cannot do something because she is a female. And I am thrilled about that. But that does not mean that a world like that did not once exist. We've come a long way, baby! But let's not forget what it took to get us here.

Sanya from Mythic:

It's not forgetting, Cindy. It's that most of us didn't know it from personal experience in the first place - so I really appreciate the dose of perspective. Thanks :)

I also think you're right about the regional and economic distinctions. My mother was raised in a sparsely populated area without a lot of money - and although she eventually went to college, it was after her father told her it was a waste of his money and she'd have to pay her own way. So she did, but she majored in education because after her upbringing, she believed that it was one of only two ladylike choices, and she didn't want to be a nurse.

Unsurprisingly, I started getting the "you can do ANYTHING" speech at birth :) And that speech was reinforced by a comfortably middle class environment and by one of the best school systems in the country.

It's easy for me to not think about her experience - it's just so alien. Viva la progress.